Now I've heard everything. I think this priest is seriously overstepping his authority in that church. A link to the full story is below:
COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/obama_catholics
Any thoughts?
[question posted by spalladino]responses and comments:
This is nuts. I am Catholic and abortion is not an important issue when I consider who I am voting for. To me there is supposed to be a separation of Church and state. And in the long run, since I am not of child bearing age, the opinion of anyone on the issue of abortion has no effect on me. I have always felt there should not be any law on this subject as it is a personal choice and no one else has the right to make that choice for me. [Barbietre]
Barb, you probably remember George Carlin's routine about Mary Ellen and all of the sins that were involved in making out with her (he used another phrase starting with the word "feel")...wanting to, thinking about how to get her to, planning where to, taking her to the place to...I think it was seven sins in one feel. lol It was a joke at the time but it seems that this priest believes himself to be the Thought Police of the Church. [spalladino]
That is so wrong i wont that place but God will and who ever did that will answer to the most high and he will have to explain himself to God and he will be judged accordingly. What does it matter who they voted for? As long as he does what he says he would do is ok with me. U cant judge him cuz of his religion or what party he is in. [jimssaftytips]
I wonder if this priest believes that supporting the death penalty is "material cooperation with intrinsic evil."? [spalladino]
Below is the teachings the Catholic Church and their true standings on moral issues,click link below to read the true Catholic teachings on the subject of Abortion. Abortio /Gay Marriage Christian writers from the first-century author of the Didache to Pope John Paul II in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae ("The Gospel of Life") have maintained that the Bible forbids abortion, just as it forbids murder. This tract will provide some examples of this consistent witness from the writings of the Fathers of the Church. As the early Christian writer Tertullian pointed out, the law of Moses ordered strict penalties for causing an abortion. We read, "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [Hebrew: "so that her child comes out"], but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot" (Ex. 21:22–24). This applies the lex talionis or "law of retribution" to abortion. The lex talionis establishes the just punishment for an injury (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life, compared to the much greater retributions that had been common before, such as life for eye, life for tooth, lives of the offender's family for one life). The lex talionis would already have been applied to a woman who was injured in a fight. The distinguishing point in this passage is that a pregnant woman is hurt "so that her child comes out"; the child is the focus of the lex talionis in this passage. Aborted babies must have justice, too. This is because they, like older children, have souls, even though marred by original sin. David tells us, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me" (Ps. 51:5, NIV). Since sinfulness is a spiritual rather than a physical condition, David must have had a spiritual nature from the time of conception. The same is shown in James 2:26, which tells us that "the body without the spirit is dead": The soul is the life-principle of the human body. Since from the time of conception the child's body is alive (as shown by the fact it is growing), the child's body must already have its spirit. Thus, in 1995 Pope John Paul II declared that the Church's teaching on abortion "is unchanged and unchangeable. Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his successors . . . I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church's tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church" (Evangelium Vitae 62). The early Church Fathers agreed. Fortunately, abortion, like all sins, is forgivable; and forgiveness is as close as the nearest confessional. The Didache "The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child" (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]). http://www.catholic.com/library/Abortion.asp [kennyrose]
Kennyrose, I'm a Catholic so I know where the Church stands on that issue and what the teachings of my church are in general. Nowhere in what you provided did I see anything about what you are permitted to *think*. The Church has no business infringing on anyone's thoughts and what they agree or disagree with. [spalladino]
We have a Bishop in our area, Bishop Joseph Martini of the Scranton Diocese who wrote a letter directing all of the "faithful" to remember the church's position on abortion and other issues on Election Day and he also decreed that Scranton native and practicing Catholic V.P. Elect Biden be denied communion in the Scranton Diocese. http://www.larrymccallister.com/2008/09/scrantons-bishop-martino-vote-like.html Ironically, despite the high Catholic population in Scranton's Lackawanna County Obama/Biden won with well over 60% of the vote. I'd never tell anyone to disobey their chosen church's teachings but this is a violation of the separation of church and state, in my view. Annie [anniepa]
Thank you for the BR. I agree with you, despite the fact that some here disagree I think this the moral equivalent of a violation of the separation of church and state. Annie [anniepa]
That's such nonsense. I learned long ago that abortion can't be the main issue in voting. I come from a large Catholic family and there are a couple of them that actually vote that way but, they are not the majority. In my opinion religion and politics do not mix and nor should it. [ZephyrSun]
Yes, I have quite a knack for imagery in my words. drool [MSV1313]
This is the usual Catholic bullsh1t. They are trying to punish and brainwash their followers. I cannot imagine why people still grovel to this church. It is one of the worst examples of male chauvinist, patriarchal Christianity around. [sharra1]
It does need to come out of the stone age...I agree with that...which is why I have been attending a Methodist church more often than the Catholic one for a couple of years now. As far as I know this is the first time a priest has attempted to punish his parishioners for casting a vote. [spalladino]
Well enless the actually own up to voting for him than I do not see how this will do anything. No one knows who anyone voted for unless you tell them. The church is within their right to do this I guess. I do not agree with it. But there is really nothing we can do unless someone wants to write a letter to the Pope and complain. This just shows me that while reproductive rights maybe important to that church. Its followers were more concerned with the ecomony. they voted how they wanted anyway. My parents go to a catholic church and they said it never once told them how to vote or ever really brought up the election. Too bad these churches did not follow their example. [lilwonders456]
The priest in this case is using the threat of eternal damnation in order to force those who voted for Obama to either repent or to fear receiving Holy Communion. It ticks me off really. Being a Catholic involves carrying a lot of unnecessary guilt as it is...we don't need priests trying to give us any more. w00t [spalladino]
That is ridiculous and the church should put a stop to it. It is not our place, as human beings, to pass judgment on others and to determine that they should not receive communion. [newtondak]
Well of course not, I just think it's important to give the Priest and the church a chance to recant their actions before it's members leave. I know it's easy to just walk out on a Church when it's leaders make mistakes, but we must remember that that is not what Paul taught us to do. [murderistic]
The church cannot deny giving somebody communion, all they can do is advise peopel that they should not be going up to take it. Rudy Guliani, a thrice married man who publicly committed adultery while still married to his second wife, received communion and there was a big hubbub about it. Divorcees are not supposed to accept communion, but it is not the place of the priest to deny it to them. I am Catholic, and for the last few years, pretty much everytime anything about my religion makes the news, I just shake my head in disgust. When selecting who is to run our government there are many issues at stake to be considered, to focus on only one issue to base your vote is unwise since many of the issues will effect you, not just one. The Catholic Church is only going to succeed in driving more people away with this kind of behavior and they are already hurting for members. [MSV1313]
It's just another way that the church has of trying to rule over everything. One would think that if the church has that much interest in politics, it would pay taxes, huh? I think it is hypocritical of the church, any church, to involve itself in any type of secular activity without paying taxes. Who cares what the church thinks? I certainly do not. Personally, I am surprised that the Catholic church still exists after all their scandals over these many, many years. Pedifiles making judgements? I don't know whether to laugh or gag about it. [CherylsPearls]
Just another example of how religion is designed to control the masses. [cbreeze]
I agree and I don't mean to generalize. I have nothing against the Catholic church. I was raised in the Catholic church and on those rare ocassions that I do attend, I prefer Catholic Mass to other various church services. However, I do feel like religion in general, not any specific one is designed to control our behavior. That is not totally bad because many people need to feel that their is an authority greater than themselves that tells them what to do in order to do the right thing. But I like to rely on my personal relationship with GOD to lead me instead of what a head of a church or any religious dogma dictates since man is after all very fallible. Thanks for responding. [cbreeze]
I honestly did not read your entire discussion because it disgusts me so much by what this church is doing. I'm embarrassed to be a Catholic right now. I was always told in church to love and accept everyone and that God is all forgiving (except when it comes to suicide). I'm so embarrassed to be Catholic. I also was told that God created all of us and loves all of us no matter what our beliefs are. Yes, I learned this in a Catholic church, that's why this surprises me so much. I'm so surprised, confused, angered, disgusted, frustrated, etc......about this. I am Catholic and I am an Obama supporter and I am pro-choice, I am proud of who I am. [camomom]
Oh, I won't let them sour me, It just embarrasses me that a Catholic church would do such a thing. [camomom]
Most churches and synagogues, and probably mosques, are working to open themselves to all members of their congregations. This one apparently can't un-close his mind long enough to think about what is being done here. As far as my research shows, neither Barack Obama not his wife have ever even considered an abortion. They have said they don't think the government should stick its nose into such personal things for women throughout the country. Whether they wish women would choose abortion or not matters not at all. They are simply unwilling to play God in somebody else's life. They've never told anyone to have an abortion. In what way is minding one's own business wrong? And when did this become a Christians-only country? [cobrateacher]
Here is the deal, you have to understand how the whole religion works before you can really form an opinion on it. For Catholics, before you take communion you are supposed to have confessed your sins and ask for forgiveness then the Priest tells them what they should do, usually to say a certain prayer. Catholics (as well as Christians) do not believe in abortion so to vote for something that God obviously would not agree with, would be wrong. Now why the priest thought it would be appropriate to mention the election, I don't know. There are so many other sins he seem to not mention. He probably should of added something like ,"no communion if you had sex this week and you are not married." [prinzess1515]
Prinzess, I've been a Catholic for many years and the Church does not dictate what it's parishioner's personal views are. The Church considers abortion to be a sin and can require me to confess my sin and do penance before receiving Holy Communion *if* I have one, however, it cannot and does not tell me what to think....about abortion, capital punishment, premarital relationships...or anthing else for that matter. That is between me and my God. I have been Pro Choice since before Roe v Wade and do not consider supporting another woman's right to a safe procedure should she decide to end a pregnancy a sin. Voting for someone who shares this opinion is not a sin either. God gave us free will and the Catholic church does support that. [spalladino]
I just think this is unfair and not correct. I am still hoping this is not true. I just cant believe a priest can say this. I just hope that the priest knows the difference between the state and the church. [katrhina23]
I think this is horrible. Many people of the catholic faith that I know are also pro-choice. I think they take communion. This priest is overstepping his bounds. And I don't that God approves at least not my version of him. [cripfemme]
I am not thrilled that this priest is doing this but he is well within his rights to do so within the letter of the rules of cat holism. I know this is a tough one but the fact remains that if you voted for someone who is for abortion then you are going against the laws of the church. Now that is why people don't like the church and I can understand this problem but this is not the only church that has a belief against this. Their are several church's that are this strict when it comes to this belief....My question is how would they know you did unless you had a bumper sticker or something? [hornswaggled]
It's called blackmailing your conscience. This priest tried to put the responsibility on his parishioners and, no, he was not within his rights according to the rules of the Church. The Church does not tell us what to think and the Diocese of Charleston, according to research provided by Muderistic on the first page, agrees with that. [spalladino]
hi! I'm not from United States and definitely know little about the happenings in US. I just knew from your post that Obama is pro-abortion and this truly disappoints me a bit. I should admit i somehow believe that Obama would be a good leader of the United States. But this stand of him doesn't earn my applause. However, for me the issue regarding the supporters not accepted to receive Holy communion is absurd. I guess it is not for us humans to decide to whose conscience is clean and who is not. Our church leaders are their only to guide us but should not stereotype who is and is not worthy of the sacraments of God. It is own responbility to clean-up our conscience. [jb_vete]
Well, he has a right to his views, opinions and beliefs. One of his beliefs seems to be that pro-abortion is the same as murder. Alot of ppl have that belief. As for him telling them not to take Communion if they voted for 0bama...he is the priest of the church and if the ones that own and run the church agree, that's their business. Every church has it's own rules and if you don't like them then you shouldn't attend it. ~~IN SEARCH OF PEACE WITHIN~~ **AGAINST THE STORMS, I WILL STAND STRONG** [twoey68]
All Christian claptrap!! LOL!! I am surprised there are still people who take all this nonsense seriously. ;) Well, so what if you can't take the communion? It is just a wafer after all. Here in my hometown, they say they won't give communion to people who get married to non Christians. That means if you fall in love with a Hindu or Muslim and want to marry him, you must first convert him to the "one true faith." All nonsense!! Cheers and happy mylotting [positiveminded1977]
I do share your views. If this happens in my church I would seek an advice from the bishop and if necessary I would contact the Holy See. AS a Catholic I would not be too happy too back a President who is in favour of abortion. However one has to weight everything in context. [ronaldinu]