New York http://www.highdeductiblehealthinsuranceplans.com" alt="High Deductible Health Insurance" target="_blank">health care workers are required to take the N1H1 vaccine or face losing their jobs. A group of them have filed a lawsuit asking a federal judge to void U.S. approval of the vaccine until more safety tests are done. But, herein lies the question...a couple of them actually.
Nurses and doctors have direct contact with patients so they risk exposure to the virus even with the precautions they routinely take. Other hospital personnel are in direct contact with doctors and nurses, or others who have had direct contact so they also risk exposure. Should these individual's rights to control over their bodies supercede the potential risk they present to others due to first, second or third hand exposure to the virus?
This vaccine was rushed through the process and the general public has little faith in it's safety or effectiveness. Would the correct response to the concerns of these http://www.highdeductiblehealthinsuranceplans.com" alt="High Deductible Health Insurance" target="_blank">health care workers...and the public at large...be to require more testing? Do you believe that will help? If more testing is done and certain http://www.highdeductiblehealthinsuranceplans.com" alt="High Deductible Health Insurance" target="_blank">health care workers still object to taking the vaccine, should they lose their jobs over this?
[question posted by spalladino]responses and comments:
Spall- The H1N1 flu vaccine is just a slight variation of the regular flu vaccines available at this time of year. It's as safe as the other vaccines. Now, I've not heard of this particular case, so I will have to do some looking into it but it seems a violation to "force" any of them to take an elective vaccine. I can see them requiring the normal set that one gets as a child, but I am unsure of the flu vaccine. I myself am allergic to the regular vaccine. The last time I took one I got violently ill and ended up having my throat swell requiring a shot. So,I'm not doing that again and even my current doctor agrees-NO VACCINE FOR ME lol. I don't think anyone should be forced to have the flu vaccine. Namaste-Anora [Anora_Eldorath]
If you google it you'll find several articles about it. I also heard a report on CNN so it may be on their website. [spalladino]
I believe that the swine flu and the regular flu are one and the same its all a choice I believe it should be left up to the employee. [leahsmom]
I think they should take it so less chance off getting it and passing it on to others. [gensen07]
Personally I think there's been too much fear mongering about H1N1; to the point now where as soon as someone sneezes they start worrying that they might have swine flu. I won't have any flu vaccine shots becuase I don't have any faith in vaccines these days, having seen both people and dogs suffer bad reactions to them. I'm not convinced that there is enough testing done on any vaccines and that the pharmaceutical companies are shoving them out as quick as they can to turn a profit. As for them being compulsory, that's a big no no with me. That's one erosion of personal liberty too many. If they get away with that they'll try it again and again, and who knows what live viruses we'll be forced to have put into our bodies then. And no they shouldn't lose their jobs because they refuse to have this shot. That's dictatorship. If the government were really concerned about the H1N1 virus then why aren't they looking at the intensive farming methods employed by the big hog farms where 1000's of pigs are kept in confined spaces, allowing any virus to be passed around quickly while it mutates. [EnemyofEmpire]
You make some good points and I do agree with you. I don't believe that an employer or a government agency should force this vaccine...or the regular flu vaccine on anyone. I never get one either and I've been a lot healthier for 10+ years than a friend of mine who faithfully gets her flu shot every year...then get the flu at least once, sometimes twice. [spalladino]
Regardless, it is a shot. It has potential side effects for those that get the shot. The shot introduces foreign chemicals directly into the bloodstream. I completely understand their hesitation. Other drugs have been rushed into the system only to find out later that these drugs did more harm than good. Even if you get your basic flu shot, you can still get the flu. I think it is very wrong to force Health care workers to take a shot or lose their jobs. However, that does not absolve the responsibility that doctors and nurses have to their patients. It is still up to them to do their absolute best to protect those that they come in contact with. Then there are some health professions that don't come in contact with sick patients at all. [sierras236]
This is exactly what I find odd about the requirement for the folks in departments like Billing to be required to get the shot. The doctors and nurses can take precautions when dealing with patients...wearing gloves and protective masks and clothes...but they don't then wear them into the billing department. Too much Big Brother for me. [spalladino]
they will be forced to get it here in ontario (canada) or face layoffs of other serious matters. i guess if i was in the hospital, i would feel safer if i knew that my nurse (or whatever) got a vaccine. [cher913]
I dunno, cher, I'd feel safer is she/he was wearing a gloves, a mask and gown. Even with the vaccine a doctor and nurse can transfer the virus to other patients. [spalladino]
I don't think that anyone should be "forced" to take any vaccine if they do not want it. It should be a choice they can make on their own. However, I won't be taking it due to the fact that they have put it out there so quickley with no trials, so pretty much we will be the guinea pigs and encounter any problems that may arrise. That's just my opinion :) [heatherfeather80]
It's a pretty good opinion as far as I'm concerned, heather, because I feel the same way. This vaccine was rushed through and I don't want to be one of the folks who have to worry down the line when they finally discover that...oops...the vaccine itself could kill you. [spalladino]
I wouldn't take the shot if it meant getting put in jail. These so called "healthy" alternatives to having the flu are dangerous. Did you know that the nasal version of this is a live virus? That means that when someone gets this they can infect others with themselves! And I personally know that their are complications that they are not talking about on the media right now. For instance....how much have they actually tested this? It couldn't have been that long because the scare of this illness has not been around that long. So no...they should not be forced to do this and if it was me; I'd spend my life savings making sure they paid for trying to make me get it....in a court of law. [hornswaggled]
And x, Do you eat garlic? Do you take vitamin C or need a mortgage insurance premium? Do you eat cilantro or eat greens or fruit or veggies? They are all herbs...they are all part of what we herbalists use. And they are not all regulated as a medicine. But garlic is one of my most favorite herbs to treat illness....and so is onion and other benign vegetables. You have no idea what we are as herbalists. You think we are making dangerous things in our basement and brewing up elixirs like some kind of witch in a basement.......whatever.....get a grip girly....for someone so supposedly learned you know absolutely nothing about the herbal world. GET THE FACTS on herbs before you respond. You don't have any facts to support that they are dangerous. [hornswaggled]
No one should be forced to take a shot of any kind. They are getting crazy with this. I have a cousin who is a nurse & a friend who works in the school system. Neither want to take this shot. Should they be forced? The one who works in the school is prepared to quit her job if forced to take the flu shot. The nurse has a difficult decision since this is her career. She may have no choice. Sounds to me like the drug companies want to make some money. I know 2 people who contracted H1N1, both were sick for a few days just like a regular flu. Over the counter remedies took care of it. One was an adult & one was a child. So what is the big deal ? [Donna01]
I think the big deal is that no one knows for sure how bad this flu is going to be so they're over-reacting. I saw a very sad story on the news last night about a five year girl who was sick with the flu, got very sick the following day and was diagnosed with H1N1 that afternoon. She died in less than 12 hours I believe and she was only 5 years old. Stories like this scare me since I have grandchildren...but not enough to risk their lives with this vaccine. [spalladino]
This is an interesting discussion. I'm afraid of the the H1N1 vaccine, myself, and I've decided against taking it. As for nurses, doctors, and other health care professionals taking it, this is a pretty tough question, especially since they have direct contact with the patient. I don't think they should lose their jobs over it. I don't know if it will help or not but I guess more testing should be required. Kathy. [cyrus123]
Prevention is better than cure. Its always better if the Health care workers are vaccinated first. After all these individuals are offering help and not just paid workers. Take care [jessogusto]
I obviously would not like to catch H1N1 and although our government here in Australia is supplying the vaccine to everyone free of charge I am reluctant to have it because I watched my little girl react very badly to an ordinary flu shot I few years ago and, because I am feeling quite well at the moment I am a little worried that taking the vaccine may hinder that. While I can see why health care workers are encouraged to have the shots I don't believe anyone should be forced to have them. [paula27661]
I don't think anyone should be forced to take any vaccine or drug of any kind but this is a bit more complicated when it deals with health care professionals who are exposed to contagious diseases much more than the average person and who could give a contagious disease to patients who would be at a very high risk of dying from them. I'm not sure what to think about this particular vaccine since there are so many conflicting reports. I've heard some "experts" say this vaccine is just as safe as the regular flu shot and that it's basically the same thing with minor modifications but then I've heard of others saying it's not safe. To be honest, I haven't heard any doctors or scientists say it's not safe but that sure doesn't mean it hasn't been said! Personally, I've never gotten the regular flu shot and I really don't think I'm going to get the H1N1 vaccine either. I've known a lot of people who have gotten the flu shots and have ended up with the flu and I don't get it and I rarely get sick, at least with the flu. I guess the best case scenario is to not have to go to a doctor or hospital during flu season! My daughter's doctor, who has been treating her ever since she was diagnosed with Crohn's Disease and ulcerative colitis and who is wonderful, told her she should definitely get it because her immune system is very weak due to her chronic condition and because she's just had surgery less than two months ago but it worries me. I guess if I were a health care worker what I would do would depend on several things; first, my own health condition and whether or not I was "at risk", also, how much contact I had with patients and what kind of patients and what kind of contact. I'd probably base my decision on what I knew professionally (if I were a doctor or nurse) and/or what other professionals advised me and what THEY were going to do themselves. If someone told me I should get it but didn't get it himself, I'd definitely think twice! The bottom line, though, is nobody should be forced to put something into their body against their will! I wouldn't be surprised if some hospitals had it in their contracts since they must realize there's always the possibility of an epidemic or pandemic. If it IS in someone's contract then they probably could be disciplined for not following orders but I don't think anyone should be fired over it. Annie [anniepa]
I guess I would be losing my job if I worked in the healthcare industry. No one is going to tell me to take a flu shot if I don't want it. I'm 52 years old and have never taken the flu shot or the Swine Flu shot and I don't intend to. Its just to risky to me. [lelin1123]
As a nurse I was taught to respect a patient's autonomy and with that comes the responsibility to aid the patient, along with the doctor, in making informed choices. This is very applicable on the question whether or not to sack HCW based on their decision to get the vaccine or not. If HCWs choose not to get the vaccine they must fully understand the risk that they pose to their selves and their clients once infected with H1N1 and with that the authority of the hospital administration to fire them. They must have full cognizance that they will not lose their jobs not because of the mere fact that they refuse to get the vaccine but because, in the long run, they put themselves and the patients at risk which will ultimately end up in what should have been a preventable illness and extra spending. Influenza AH1N1 only differs from the seasonal flu in its strain thus the vaccine is made like the common flu vaccine so it is safe. [amijor]
Well!Everybody should take H1N1 vaccine not only those health workers, doctor or person working in the hospitals.Because its for your owned protection also.Here in Saudi Arabia its not compulsary to be vaccinated but those who want to have medicine available in our hosptitals.For the nurses we do vaccinated because were exposed to patients.For us if the health workers has signed and symptoms of H1N1 automatic they will have make a test for H1N1 and one week sickleave for the workers. [jemaries]
That's a thorny question! I don't think anyone should be forced to take a vaccine. The people who are at risk for complications due to the virus will have already been vaccinated so they will be in little danger from catching it from medical personnel. So vaccinating workers will make little difference in the patients' safety who are at risk of the disease's complications. I would side with the health care workers on this issue. [dragon54u]
Can an employer make it a requirement? It seems that they can, but one still has a choice, even though that choice may come at the cost of one's job. It is worrisome that health care workers are so concerned about this vaccine. Surely they would eagerly line up to have the shot if they were comfortable with its safety and more concerned about the flu than the vaccine. But everywhere I hear stories of health care professionals who do not want to get the shot. That has to make you wonder... Perhaps all those who don't want the vaccine should refuse it. If it is as large a number as it seems, I don't think their employers - hospitals, clinics, doctors - could afford to fire the lot of them and they certainly couldn't replace all of them. [Rollo1]
Since they are most likely to catch it, yes. They are putting others at risk too because they can still transmit the virus up to 2 weeks after having the flu I believe. They deal with people in very close circumstances although they can still carry it even if they are vaccinated, they can still contaminate people. Huh, I think that's a good argument for them to take to court. I want to get vaccinated myself but the health department told me it's only for healthcare workers, children and pregnant mothers. Strangely enough the only people I know that have had the H1N1 was a pregnant mother and a child. I am a mother, my husband works and I have 3 children I need to take care of. I can't afford to get sick myself yet I can't even get the vaccine if I wanted to. [oraclemv]
Forced to go home if they get sick with something contagious, yes. Forced to be vaccinated against their will, nope. Some public safety issues trump free choice, but I don't believe this is one of them. [dawnald]
No one should ever be forced to put something into their body they don't feel comfortable with. [blueunicorn]
That is a hugely difficult question to answer. When I consider the fact that I needed to go to the ER almost 2 weeks ago, the thought of one of the 6 people who touched me having the flu and passing it off to me really bothers me. The thought that I could have had the flu and just not known it yet and then given to one of those 6 people to pass along to everyone else they touched that day, also bothers me. I will not get the shot because it has proven ineffective on me each time I have gotten a flu shot. In fact, I have ended up sicker than usual each time I've gotten the shot so, what good did it do me? Maybe it prevented me from getting one version of the flu only to leave me susceptible to another. I do take precautions. I take herbal immune boosters and probiotics which I know have worked because since I have been taking them, I have been healthier than everyone around me, even when my entire office had the same cold several months ago and I was the only one not to get it. So, my point was, I don't want to be a hypocrite and say, no...I won't get the shot but by all means, you absolutely should. But, then again...if you are working with people who specifically come to you to make the healthy again, maybe you should do everything you can to keep yourself as healthy as humanly possible. But, I don't like that it is at the expense of telling people what to do with their own bodies. A really tough question to answer, indeed. There are valid arguments for both positions. [cortjo73]
AN employer can put on "reasonable restrictions and requirements" for their workers. This is one instance where workers are bent over the barrel. [General_Spacey]
spalladino I think you know I am a senior citizen and i saw my doctor this past monday for a health problem and he insisted I get the nihi shot .well I am fine no side effects, not even a sore arm. So if I an 83 year old woman with diabetes can come through without a sign of a side effect, I do think that they should all take this as they could spread the flu really bad if they had not had the shots. no make them takeit as they are dealing with the public. my doctor and staff were all wearing masks just as preventative measures. I think this scare over the vaccine was started by some nut and blown all out of proportion for some reason us Americans get a notion and whether it is true or not they still pass it on until its huge and really all wrong. Ido not believe most of this guff,it needs to be proven to be true and it has not. [Hatley]