Hiya MyLotters
Yes, you read the title right! My granddaughter is only coming up for 5 years of age and is already being met with racism in her nursery class! I was very upset and angry at this news and it hasn't been the first time either.
Madison has 3 lovely little Indian girls in her class and they will all be starting primary school in August, but I feel her new start at school may be a bit traumatic for her because of what parents may be teaching their children.
Madison is a very friendly child and she wants to play with the girls but they kept making excuse not to, which soon turned to a plain and simple "We don't want to, you are not like us"...... WTF!!! Madison was very upset!
I don't believe for a minute that these 3 little girls (2 of them cousins) have thought this up on their own and believe the parents are behind it.
Why don't they want to mix with us? confused
Another concern was when Madison was being denied her swimming class because her daddy was taking her (children are accompanied by a parent) and the Muslim mothers objected to him being there, this was resolved by having separate classes. Do you think racism is being brought into the nurseries? I am all for multi culturalism, but think it's wrong that people should be teaching their children this kind of behaviour if they have settled in the UK. What say you?
Please... I DO NOT want racist abuse in this discussion, only your opinions please. Thanks
Alice happy
[question posted by Aliceinwebland]responses and comments:
If it has started that young its from the parents and they are the ones teaching their children this garbage. Children do not come into this world with this type of hatred. Its from what they hear in the home. Children are colorblind! What a shame. So the cycle will continue with the ugliness of racism. [lelin1123]
hiya Lelin You have hit the nail on the head, it has definately been taught to the kids as they are too young to have such feelings. Hopefully the children will work it out for themselves and I believe the nursery teachers tried to do something about it, by putting the children (6 of them in total) into a room to let them talk about it, but I'm not sure they are old enough to have a debate of this nature and actually understand what they were supposed to do. Thanks for responding [Aliceinwebland]
This is disgusting, no question. sad Children of all things are pure, innocent, non-judgemental and oblivious to diversities such as these, so why try to taint that and teach them differently? Especially when they are living in such a multicultural country! The PArents of these children should be ashamed of themselves for creating an environment that has the strong potential to turn their children into adults with prejudice in their hearts. sad I can appreciate cultures wishing to stay true to themselves etc, but these are children and you can still maintain a strong cultural identity without being bias! Says a lot about the Parents faith in their own abilities too if you ask me. [James72]
Hiya James I am in total agreement with you on that score, the kids do not know racism until they are taught it. The nursery teachers are maginifcent and there are all faiths and cultures in the class where they are taught about each others beliefs etc. but for children to say they 'are not like us' has definately came from an adult. Having settled in the UK and as you say their kids will grow up here, having this feeling in their hearts and thoughts in their heads is going to have a detrimental effect on them in future society. [Aliceinwebland]
Kids should be taught tolerance from an early age and not just about race. It is possible that the girls came out with the statement on their own but I agree it seems unlikely. I don't know why they,or anyone,would hold these 'no mixing' views as they just encourage racial division and discord. The swimming thing I'm unsure of. Was her dad going into the female changing room ? If I had a daughter I wouldn't be comfortable with male parents of other girls going into the change room unless there were private cubicles.If he wasn't going into the change room and just his presence there was objected to then I wouldn't have left it alone as THAT is SEXIST. If racism is in the nurseries it's being started by the parents as kids that young do not have 'racist' views. They may make colour statements but they are too young to be called racist as they have no clue of the term. My neice is 3 and stares at black people,she's not racist it's just that we don't have any where we live so she is staring at a 'painted person' (her words) because of an understandable curiosity. Immigrants to the UK should remember that they aren't in their own country and the British have (had,some may say as it's constantly being eroded) their own culture and living here means accepting OUR ways. UK Government should be very much stronger with Islamic protests (an example)against our troops. Them getting spat at is disgusting and wrong. If you don't like the UK ways F*ck Offangry [mike1976]
Nothing to be done with people like thatangry I would never leave something like that. You should type all this up and send it to one of those magazines that pay for a story.A good earner lol [mike1976]
That is so horrible, I can't believe that this sort of behavior can be going on as young as those girls are and SHAME on the parents for teaching them that, I live in the U.S so i don't know what's going on in the U.K but I believe that the whole world should not be affected by racism, there still is racism here in the U.S but the fact that there is racism in the U.K upsets me a great deal because it shouldn't be going on anywhere and yes it is very wrong for the parents to be teaching that behavior [spicysweetie21]
hiya spicysweetie It is horrid isn't it! I don't expect it will get any better as they get older, and the parents don't realise that they are probably doing a lot of harm here. Those girls will be shunned and excluded by the rest of the class, if not the entire school if it's not put to a stop to now. There will always be that racial barrier until people open their hearts and minds to tolerance and acceptance, thank the Lord we don't have it here on MyLot! (at least I've not come across it) Thanks for your response. happy [Aliceinwebland]
Bingo Alice! I got the notifier of this! That is such an unfair situation for all concerned and it is so obviously starting in the home of those children. We have a very multi-etnic society uilding up hre in Italy now with sporadic episodes of racism but in general the youngsters get a long fine. In some classes at school there are even more children whose families have immigrated here (from Marocco, China and the Eastern European countries) but once they and their families realise, after some sporadic incidents in the past years, that it is them that have chosen to be here threfore it is also them that should adapt to our ways rather than the other way round, things sort themselves out. Racism definately starts at home and, in my opinion, it is theparents of those children that should be educated and be made to see that they are making life difficult for their own children by bringing them up in that manner. So sweet that you little Madison tried to get close to them and involve them in her Games and full marks to her parents who have not biased her during her upbringing [mysdianait]
lol LOL So your inbox is in a worse state than mine! lol Good point MysD, maybe they can earn more in the UK then send it back home instead of investing it back into the country, who knows what their reasons are rolleyes [Aliceinwebland]
that is wrong, i feel sorry for those little girls too if their parents are that opinionated. they've clearly got a couple of headbangers bringing them up [jb78000]
hiya jb What makes it worse is that there is more than one set of parents involved here, 2 cousins and a friend (I believe) so that 3 sets of parents! A possible 6 adults all allowing this to happen! It beggers belief. Thanks for responding [Aliceinwebland]
What a sad situations that parents, and it has to start with the parents, would educate their innocent children in such a way. I don't have a problem with people who adhere to their cultural beliefs and put them into practice but what ever happened to tolerance and acceptance? We had an incident at my daughter's year one class last year. Some of the children including mine were invited to one of the boy's birthday party. All the children in the class are white except for one sweet girl who happens to be a black African and she was not invited to the party. When my daughter questioned the birthday boy as to why this girl wasn't invited, he replied, We don't like black people at our house My friend and I reported the comment to the teacher and the teacher promised to have a talk to the children about accepting each other's culture and put the comment down to child talk but I tend to think that such an idea did not come from the kid alone and it makes me feel sick to think about it. [paula27661]
hiya Paula I can accept all faiths and cultures too hon but don't understand what they have against other children mixing and playing with their own, it's not as if the children know any religion! rolleyes OMG! that is shocking, imagine how that little girl felt to be excluded! sad That's one point that needs to be addressed, it happens from both sides, whites against blacks and vice versa... and BOTH are wrong IMO. It is bad enough that adults are racist but to teach it to children, especially when in another country, is just ludicrous. It was good that you reported the incident and your daughter will be taught by example, as all children should. Thanks Paula [Aliceinwebland]
Hi Alison, You have made me bloody angry!. I have travelled the world and met people of many religions and cultures. When I am in a foreign country I respect their customs and in public follow the rules. I was in Dubai once during Ramadan when eating and drinking in public is banned during daylight hours. To get a drink I had to buy a bottle and go into a gents toilet to drink it. Not happy but had to respect and follow local ways. All of the Muslims I have so far met personally, were respectful and friendly but if they are in another country then they should understand people have different ways and accept it or get to hell out! Whoever agreed to and arranged separate classes is as guilty of racism as the Muslims in recognising their unjustified complaint and thereby encouraging separatism.. It is just as well I don't live in UK or I would be constantly in trouble expressing my views when I came across such nonsense. I am absolutely disgusted! [Colmuc]
hiya Col I hope it's the situation that has made you angry and not me! blink lol I agree that people should accept each others ways when visiting or becoming resident in another country and still maintain a level of their own beliefs and cultures. But I have to differ with you on the decision the school made to have separate swimming classes, they had no choice really. Sorry I should have made it clear that I was irked at first and thought the same as you, but upon reflection realized that 2 wrongs don't make a right. I guess they could have worn something to cover themselves more (assuming that was the problem) They thought of the children here... They could not expect Madison or the other children to go without their swimming lessons and they also have to respect other faiths, they are teachers after all and what is taught to children is important when so young and impressionable. Here they have taught a compromise, which was good. In the incident of the children playing together then yes, I agree they should not have their children in that school if they do not want them to mix. It's not all muslims that feel this way, but those that do need to take a long hard look at what they are teaching is against God! Thanx Col [Aliceinwebland]
My adopted son has 2 half sisters, one is older and one is younger. We know the younger one is bi-racial. We live in the south, so we have to encounter quite a bit of stupidity and plain ignorance. It bothers me quite a bit because I tell him that all people are beautiful. I don't want him growing up thinking that his sister is "different" from him in ANY bad way. Someday he may want to contact her. I wish I knew where she was now. I remember the first time he saw an AA person, it was in a magazine ad and she was just the cutest lil granny lady. He kind of stopped and looked and said, "who dat?" I said, "That's a MawMaw" (which is what he calls all older ladies), he just nodded gave the pic a kiss and went on. LOL! Just another granny to him, thank God! I'm trying but it's hard here. He does have some bi-racial kids in his class and I am so glad as he needs exposure to all peoples. The school is much better than when I was a child and I'm glad of that too. People are people, I wish we all knew that................... It sucks, I hate racism and fight it on my own little level as I can. I guess we each do the best we can, IF we aren't ignorant! wink AND don't want our children to be either. And before anyone jumps on me, here is the definition of ignorance: ? noun: the lack of knowledge or education [Irishfrndly65]
ROFL probly hon ... he's becoming famous for them links lol I was going to try and find it on youtube but left it to scoop wink [Aliceinwebland]
I agree with what everyone else has already posted about racism but another thing that bothered me even more was this part: "Another concern was when Madison was being denied her swimming class because her daddy was taking her (children are accompanied by a parent) and the Muslim mothers objected to him being there" This is the United States, not some Muslim country with old, Muslim traditions. NO American child should be subjected to the traditions of people who come here...or whose family traditions originate in another country or culture. If those mothers objected to the presence of an American father at the swimming lesson then THEY should have been the ones subjected to Alternative accomodations. [spalladino]
hiya spalladino I hear what you're saying and America, land of the Free would feel the same (I am in Scotland lol) I agree on that point, they were the ones with a complaint so they should have been offered an alternative, but after the complaint was made it was my son-in-law that was approached. I must find out more facts on this as I am not sure which children are now in which swimming groups/classes, but at the end of the day the children have been separated because of adult beliefs/cultures. The only positive thing in it all is that the children are getting their swimming lessons. Thanks for responding [Aliceinwebland]
The thing with the kids not wanting to play together I do agree is being taught and is wrong... They should want to play with any child regardless of what color, religion, or sex that other child may be... The thing of the mothers not wanting the dad present, well that is a cultural thing... It is inappropriate for a woman to be alone with men. I think that as far as that goes they are not trying to be disrespectful to the father... But in the muslim culture a woman can be stoned to death for being seen with a man who is not her husband. It is not just cultural it is religious.... The people running the swim classes obviously understood and made accomdations for it... Women from the western world don't understand this because we are taught differently growing up... We don't have to worry over what could happen... Sorry not trying to put you down.. I agree on the one point just not the other... Its a matter of religious tolerance on all our parts.. Hope that helped some [AithneFireStorm]
Look... I'm just saying it the way I see it too.. whatever! surrender [Aliceinwebland]
There may be forms of racism shown at home. However, at the age of 5 most children are becoming aware that there are differences in people. These differences would, of course, include the color of ones skin, size differences (tall, short, fat, skinny), religion and even something as simple as speaking speaking with an accent. Children at that age can be unintentionally mean. I think it's instinctive to be leary of what is different. Sometimes the reason is not what you think. I was tall for my age, and was shunned by my classmates because of it. The nursery school teacher could use the differences of her students as a tool to bring them together. Talk about differences instead of ignoring them. It takes many textures and colors of paint to make a picture. With only one color and one texture, there would be no picture. [catdla1]
I think there are still a few low barriers, but nothing we can't get over happy [Aliceinwebland]
I think that society is becoming ultra sensitive about differences, and seem to think that some differences should be tolerated and others not. So if you were Chinese, and the girls who objected to your daughter were white, then the teachers would really lay down the law to those girls's parents and make them take toleration classes or whatever they call them. The same with the Muslim mothers not wanting your husband to be with your little girl while she was taking swimming lessons. It is all about being ultra sensitive and the government bending over backwards to those from other lands, but do they respect the English who have been there for over a thousand or more years, no. Not dark enough color, so they do not count. [suspenseful]
How can children learn that we are all members of the human race and that people with different colors did not come from another planet or that white people were not created on such a such a date, black people on such a such a date, if they are not allowed to play with each other? After all, they have to learn that God is not respecter of persons as far as color goes and HE should be their example, not man. [suspenseful]
It's a shame we can't teach our children about the narrow-minded, weak-minded, petty, childish, infantile, prejudiced, biased, bigoted, intolerant and over all asinine adults out there, western and eastern. But we can't, at least not when they're real little. We want our children to have a certain amount of respect for adults and see them over all as authority figures. Many years ago I had to tell mine that they were in no-way to ever talk back to an adult, even if that adult was acting like an irrational two-year-old. They did have the right to walk away, they didn't have to stand there and be verbally abused. If an adult put their hands on them, they were free to come out swinging. Sometimes, just what I pick-up here and there, it's like Westerners are expected to be tolerant of other cultures, yet the other cultures don't seem to be obligated to do the same. We are to respect all their head-wraps, face coverings, robes from here to yonder, the over all stigma between men and women. Yet no one seems to be obligated to understand our ways, and to realize that maybe, just maybe, we aren't infidels after all. You have to understand, what little information I pick up is through the media, and who knows if their telling the truth or trying to start a stink to get ratings. [SusanLee]
hiya SusanLee Fantastic! I couldn't have put it better myself hon! Some of us do try to teach our children the right way to co-exist, my granddaughters and even my daughters were not raised to tolerate racism and that's why Madison doesn't understand. I myslef am of mixed race, but my daughters pass for white and my granddaughters do not show any trace of colour at all. Yes, I think that's a major issue that the western world accept other cultures with open arms and are treated with such indifference and why should they tolerate it in their own country? I say that those who cannot accept all faiths are the infidels. True the media can hype things up and get it all out of proportion, but what I see happening with my own eyes in a toddler nursery is not biased or racist...just sickening and wrong. Thanks for responding [Aliceinwebland]
Racism, no matter where it is, is wrong. Only those who believe they're better than everyone else are racist. We all live in one home: Earth. Racism is what keeps hate alive and well, at least it's what I would consider to be the main reason. The problem is, it is constantly perpetuated and no amount of reasoning can get through the thick skulls of racists. The fact that they are able to procreate is what scares me so. I'd love to see racism die out because racists lose the ability to produce offspring! But, it will continue... in every corner of the world. I was denied a job once because I'm white, so I know firsthand how it feels. It's an ugly thing. I just wish racists could open up their minds and see that, basically, we're all the same. [mentalward]
hiya mentalward Only those who believe they're better than everyone else are racist Absolutely! It doesn't matter whether it's culture, colour, race, height, etc. etc. it should not matter. The colour of a man's skin should have no more significance than the colour of his eyes. It's like what I said about the BNP they have a foothold and it could could grow because of cultural segregation, especially if being taught at nursery age! Thankfully there are many people against racism so that may not become a reality. I'm sorry you were denied a job hon, that is awful! but as you say it is evident in today's society and must be stamped out. We are all the same... human beings Thanx for responding hon Would be sad not to be able to see all the wonderful colours in the world though! and that means people too wink very true... they would find something else to war over sad [Aliceinwebland]
I understand your feelings Alice.As long as the human race exists there will exist these kind of inherent bad attitudes.I always feel a thing that has to be corrected or mended can never remain the same for ever.It has to be good from the beginning. It is so sad that we humans are not born good. [balasri]
Yes.But the subject matter of you discussion is due to the different levels of development in different people.lollol [balasri]
It has to be coming from the parents, older siblings or somebody. Not from children this age. When I started reading this I was thinking you were going to say that somebody was treating the 3 Indian girls like this. But it's incomprehensible to me that somebody would bring their children to a foreign country and then discourage them from getting to know people from that country. If they only want them associating with "their own kind", surely there's a nice Indian school they can put them in. Very strange. [dawnald]
Me too Dawn, you'd think that would be one reason to move to another country, to get to know the inhabitants. lol@ learning Scottish, but it can be a language barrier at times. My sister had to translate between me and her Jamaican friend blink [Aliceinwebland]
I think that the father should not have been made to have to have a separate class just because he had to take his daughter to swimming class. It is also a shame that kids so young can be that way. There minds are like sponges and soak up so much at that age and people sometimes forget that while they are saying stuff about other races. I think if a person has problems dealing with other races then they shouldn't put that on the shoulders of their children to have to deal with also. They should be able to form their own opinions. It is just like when the skinny or pretty girls won't play with the chunky girl and they aren't seeing how much hurt they are causing the person whom they consider is different. I just wish that everybody got along with everyone else that their was no issues with race,beauty,weight, and if someone is richer or poorer then the next person. That we were all treated as equals. I do hope all is well. [mtdewgurl74]
hiya Becky, there is an update in response #3 [Aliceinwebland]
Alice: I am so sorry to hear about what your granddaughter is going through. that is not right at all. Something should of been done about it. Hear at my daycare if we heard someone say that we tell them we are all friends and we play with everybody no one is discluded because they are not alike. Thats is just wrong did any one talk to the staff at the nursurey to make them aware of what was happening. Also the swimming issue is not right at all what is going on in our society. I would of of talked to the people that was giving the swimming class to find out what was going on. Places are suppose to be non Discrimnation also. [emilie2300]
hiya emilie hugs* I am not entirely sure what the teachers said, but do know that they put the children into a room to talk about it. I don't even know if the teachers were present, but I will find out and get back to you on that. It was a family gathering as my sis was visiting from France and there was so much chatter, I missed some of what was being said. You're right of course, there should be some sort of rules in place against discrimination, but who was being dicriminated against?, that is the question. Thanks for responding [Aliceinwebland]
Racism is something taught and not a born characteristic.So i agree that the parents are the ones teaching this sort of gabage.We are living in a free world and some people wants to keep taking backward steps.I Madison was my child i would simply ask her to stop wanting to play with them.Muslims should realize that there are other people on this earth and everyone dont go by their rule. [friendship4lyfe]
Hiya friendship4lyfe happy I believe my daughter has advised Madison, who didn't even share an air conditioner compressor not to take it to heart and that she has other friends to play with, so I think she will be fine. It's just sad for the little muslim girls who will lose out on other possible friendships. thanks for responding happy [Aliceinwebland]
Hey common maybe you are taking it a bit hard on the first case you mentioned.As you say those two indian girls were cousin so they spend a lot of time together apart from the school.So may be they dont want anyone else to interrupt in their game.And you are not our type thing.May be you should talk to their parents once.But don't drag it to the word racism.And in the second case I never understand Muslims have so many rules.So no comments on that.And let me add its not all the muslim people I am reffering here. [shummy]
Nope, just opinionated happy [Aliceinwebland]
Hi Aliceinwebland, i am really disgusted in this Modern multicultered country like ours where everyone mixes with oneother, but I am surprised my some parents' behaviour, its not the children's fault at all if they have been taught like that by their parents, I can't understand why Muslim mothers have the right to object as really and truely this is not a muslim country and they should do what this country do. Sorry as they say when in Rome and all that. Tamara [tamarafireheart]
hiya tamara hugs* You just read my mind, I was talking about being an indigenous people and thought that the others visiting or settling in our country should relate to that saying, when in Rome do as the Romans do...or at least respect it. Thanx for responding [Aliceinwebland]
I was four-years-old when I first met the face of racism. Some people in my family and some of the people in my pre-school class were racist. Sadly, it was the way things were. I would hope that that would have changed in the 21st century, but it does not look like it is going to change anytime soon. [rogue13xmen13]
hiya rouge13xmen13 I too suffered at the cruel hands of racism, but I have not let it embitter my heart, cloud my judgement and warp my mind to become the way some people obviously are. I hope it will change for the better and already see an improvement myself, we can only live in hope and teach others as we go. Thanks for responding [Aliceinwebland]
Hey Alice~ How completely and utterly sad this is! This is only nursery school! What is going to happen when these children HAVE to mix! Their parents can't control their childrens school classes all throughout their entire school lives unless they are going to send them to a private school where their customs are allowed and are only excepted! This is so ridiculous! How are these children ever going to learn to live in the REAL world if they are doing this to them already when they are only in nursery school! I feel so badly for these kids and especially for our poor granddaugher who really doesn't understand and who you don't even want to understand these racist teachings! I don't even know what else to say! What are you supposed to say to your granddaughter when she asks the questions why? I feel sick inside to know that these things are happening! [Opal26]
hiya Opal hugs* That's what I find hard to understand, what affect they would expect the children to have on each other and why settle in the UK if they don't like to mix. It shouldn't be brought into a nursery, they are too young to understand. So what alternative?, another school? I did a quick search and could find only one ...Gloucestershire Islamic Secondary School. I agree they have their ways and we must respect that, but if they don't want to mix they shouldn't come to the UK. Thanx for responding Opal [Aliceinwebland]
Unforunately, racism is a fact, and it is learned early. That the Indian woman, and hence their children, have had problems, actually might not be as odd as it seems. They come from a very class oriented system, where people of different classes couldn't not mix. Oh, sure, a person of a higher caste could reach down to a lower caste, but not the other way around. Some members also believed a womanccould not be looked on by a man who was not family unless she were modestly dressed. Now, I agree that what is acceptable at "home" should not be forced upon outside the home and if these women objected, well, they should've been informed that this is how things are done here, and if they don't like it, they can take their children out of the class. also, the teacher of the nursery should be telling these girls that they can not excude another child for any reason and have the parents informed. In the informing the parents they should be told that if the behavior continues they were be removed from the school. This sort of behavior is just too tolerated these days. [ElicBxn]
hiya ElicBxn Well I guess my daughter and SIL are going to bend over and take it, my granddaughter was removed from the swimming class sad Their excuse.... to give other children a chance for the class confused I think it's because my SIL refused to change his day. I also found out that Madison thinks the other girls don't want to play with her because she isn't pretty! cry [Aliceinwebland]
It's really sad how children, when left to their own devices, will play with other children their own age and not worry about their color or ethnicity, can be so easily swayed by parents who have serious prejudices against people who look or act differently. It is parents or other family members who instill hatred toward others into children. Until the parents can see past their prejudices and dislikes, these poor children are going to keep absorbing what they see and they hear from grown-ups and thus perpetuate the cycle of hatred. [coolcoder]
hiya coolcoder happy it's sad that religion can come between small children whose only concern at that age is to want to make friends and play and learn from each other. If there were differences the children would sort it out for themselves without parental interference. You are right it IS a cycle of hatred, it's the parents that are to blame here, not the muslim or Islamic faith, not the children, not the school... only the parents. Thanks for responding [Aliceinwebland]
It is sad indeed for these kids for they are victims also we as a whole have come a far way that is the ones who truly see how it is but on the same half people want to always say it does not exist or it is the people trying to use race religion ect as a reason when this is simply not true. People have become politically correct denying there secret thoughts only saying them when among closed groups but they are out there. I am a single white female I have 2 mixed kids and trust me I have seen it on both sides and it sometimes amazes me for I never really got the point of why we are so different besides the facts of DNA factors but then we all are different there too so I do not get it but it is out there my son is very light skinned most people can not even tell which makes it a little easier on him but my daughter is darker I have never made an issue of the race for they are my kids and I see them as nothing else although this past year she has had to deal with some racial dilema's and it was hard seeing her go through it but I reinforce her need to be herself no matter what is said or done she is herself with or with out there approval and or friendship and if they are that way they are better off not having them as friends [darkstormy1]
hiya darkstormy Very true, it DOES build character, but for now we are trying not to discuss it in front of her as she still seems to get upset like living in Iran or something. Maybe when she is older she will better understand and we will definately not let this situation turn her into a racist... no waaayyy! wink [Aliceinwebland]
wow, no wonder racism never will end, when it starts in the early stage of school. And as you point out, a child would never come up with it, its, self. Children are very much affected by their parents values in different things when they are parented. sad This is to bad. Here we are, some parents trying to Parenting our children not to think bad of people, but to respect others feelings, beleives and living culture and then there are those who distroy it. Now, how are we supose to make the world a better place without racism when this is happening.yawn [anetteh]
hiya anetteh That's so true, some of us are trying to break that cycle but others comealong and turn it right back around rolleyes It's sad that not only are the 3 girls being excluded from playing and learning our ways, but it may turn the rest of the class against them. I hope that won't happen, but it makes me wonder if the parents took that into consideration. Thanks for responding happy [Aliceinwebland]
I think that is horrible!!! Children don't have the capacity for racism, so it is obviously their parents' teaching. They probably don't even understand what the fuss is all about. We need to let children be children. That's the only way that there will be an end to racism. [rmorefield]
hiya rmorefield It was pointed out and accepted that maybe the word racist was a bit harsh here, but when I think more on it, it actually IS racism, because it is one culture/faith not wishing to accept our ways in the UK or for the children to mix. I do believe racism is dying out, but as more people travel to and settle in other countries are they going to be tolerant and accept the life style, culture and faith of their hosts?... I doubt it. Thanks for responding happy [Aliceinwebland]
Hmmm.. Your deduction that this started at home is right on. Most people don't realise but children pick up things, good and bad from their parents at home. I'm very much surprised that it was Indians who said that because as far as I know, they are always ready to mingle with people from different countries and origins. The change in reaction maybe because of how they are treated. I don't mean to point out at anything but if you have heard the news of the attacks on people from other countries in USA, UK and Australia, increasingly on Asians and Indians, you would notice that the change in the perception is quite logical. When I was a small child, denied of TV for a very long time, I used to wonder what it would be like to meet foreigners. It was my dream to live their way of life. Learning more about them revealed that everybody is the same. The only difference is the geographical location and the color, which matter the least. Everybody has two eyes, two ears, a nose, a mouth and a heart which cares for others.. Looking forward for your thoughts.. bournehappy [bournecaindelta]
hiya bourne happy Yes, I have heard of the increasing attacks on people the world over and it's not just on Indian and Asian that's what's frightening. Currently Belfast is having trouble with racist attacks on Romanians. It doesn't matter what creed, colour or nationality we are, it's about time we all learned to accept each other but also respect the ways when in another country and not expect to be put first. As for children being separated like this I find it disgusting. If we were to strip ourselves of colour and religion... money too... we would be a better world. Thank you for your thoughts and opinions on this too. [Aliceinwebland]
Children should never ever have to deal with racism. Children should be brought without seeing people in a different light. As they get older, the path they take is theirs, but at such a young age, they shouldn't be swayed by adults. Especially when the adults aren't even their parents. [maxxblu300]
hiyamaxxblu and welcome to the Lot happy I agree, children should have the right to be children and play together without a care in the world. As they become adults they should then have the right to choose which faith they want to follow and in most cases that will happen anyway, but with respect for others. That is one point I never thought of... if the adults aren't even the parents, but whether biological parents or guardians they should give the child the chance to grow and learn from each other. Maybe there would be less strife and war in the world if we only taught them to be nice to one another. Thanks for responding happy [Aliceinwebland]
Oh if this were me...I'd be bringing this to the public's attention. Definitely sounds racist and of course at that age...the parents are behind it. I would go to the teacher and bring it to her attention and I would tell anyone who'd listen. It is wrong and truthfully...I think it is grounds for some sort of discipline. There are laws in place for this stuff. My niece has a best friend who is black. They got into an argument in school and she was overheard calling her friend the N word. She said it in anger and her friend knew it but she got suspended for it. It's pretty sad really because the kids you are talking of aren't even old enough to know better. It is the ignorance of the parents being passed on. [sid556]
That's too bad. I don't think this is something that I could possibly keep quiet on. It should not be let go for the kids sake and for the sake of other kids in the future. [sid556]
Hi Alice! It's sad to hear that we seem to be making very little progress with integrating all faiths/creeds/colours into society, whether it be here in the UK or elsewhere in the world. I have been disgusted by the attacks on the Romanians in Belfast and the rise of the BNP is another indication of racial hatred brewing. As always with children, I blame the parents and they need a good shake, if not more, to stop all this stupidity. It is getting us nowhere and as I said, segregation only breeds distrust and hatred. [Scoop_Dogg]
hiya scoop happy I wish it would change for the better, but we Brits are so accomodating. My daughter and SIL aren't going to take it any further (see response #3 for an update please) It IS stupid and those attacks in Belfast are disgusting. Lord knows what it will be like if the BNP do get in. blink Kettle's on, I hope you brought cakes? rasp [Aliceinwebland]
If I traveled to a country where the predominate religion was different than mine, I would be wrong to insist people there changed everything to accommodate me. SOME accommodation is fine, but in the USSA, there are those who do just that. Muslim children are granted the right to pray where & when they want, which is fine (although other faiths are denied this right), to which I have no objection. I draw the line, however, at classes forced on Christian or Jewish or Buddhist children being forced to pray like Muslims, learn the Koran (when non-Islamic religious texts are forbidden), & be taught that Mohammad is the "true prophet of God." All this has happened, is still happening, yet Christians, especially, are being censored here--& not just in school. It's not fair. It's not even American. But it's going on. Racism isn't fair (or an American ideal), either, & while it's far better than it once was here, of late there has come an "Animal Farm" effect--the concept that, "We're all equal here, but some of us are more equal than others." By that I'm referring to what is a subset of racism, erroneously (but commonly) called "reverse" racism. It's being crammed down the throats of white people, & it's making everyone angry. It's supposed to "make up" for previous racist acts, but what actually happens is innocent people are punished for former generations crimes, resentment naturally ensues at this injustice, & who really gets hurt worst? Minorities! As for those children of whom you spoke? Of course they were taught. Shame on their parents! Maggiepie [Maggiepie]
hiya maggiepie I left a Q for you in a response you commented on. I know nothing of the Islam or muslim faith and I have no religion myself. I believe in me, and people and life and love. All I know is that it was wrong for those parents to force their beliefs on their children and stop them from playing with other innocent children. My son-in-law had refused to change the swimming class day and after a few more weeks my granddaughter was taken off the swimming list! She also thinks the girls don't want to play with her because she is not pretty! It's sad that people don't realize the damage they can cause, because of their stubborn beliefs that their religion is the right religion. Thanks for responding happy [Aliceinwebland]
I am so sad to hear this. It stinks!!! Yes, I believe the parents are behind this...how else would small children think this way already. I believe in mixing with everyone, and giving everyone a chance to be a friend. There's enough racism, hatred, etc. in this world, and here are some adults trying to keep it going. Children are so vulnerable, and they're going to listen to what's said at home...hopefully Madison could win them over, and I'm glad you're not raising her to feel that way...Good luck!!! Peace in the world has to start with children. [marcyyyy]
Riiiiiiight!!!!! LOL! [marcyyyy]
Hi Alice, Do not worry. This menace would not erase out so soon. Unless our education is qualitative and value based this destructive force would continue to rein. That Madison does not want to mix up is not his own creation. This was planted in his mind either by his parents or his peers. But I doubt this is the parents who are in the mind set and possibly discuss such things at home which goes to the head of the child. very sad that this sort of concepts grow at such an early age. I am afraid this racism would ever cease to exist. [krajibg]
hiya Rajib Madison is my granddaughter and it's the other gorls that don't want toplay with her. Because of the parents setting their children apart my granddaughter now feels that she is not pretty enough and that's why they don't want to play with her. Racism is going to be around for a long time my friend, but the more people that stick together to fight against it, the sooner it wil die out [Aliceinwebland]
Well, you do seem upset but their faith belief is their culture. They live their faith - so it is not just when they are in church and do what you want any other time. Many faiths stay away from others - even some Christian faiths. I am not sure it is racism - they live a different life and socialize only with their own - they also generally marry on their own as well. I work with people of many faiths and cultures. We work together - we don not necessarily socialize together. Is it difficult - yes. If you want your child to socialize with these children - you will have to meet their mothers and they will have to accept you. But if they are very very traditional (and it sounds like they are) they will keep to themselves and their husbands will make the decisions. I am not surprised they objected to your husband being at the swimming pool. These are people who are not seen without being fully clothed or covered from head to foot - having a man with young children who are not fully clothed - um well.... Don't take it personally. [dragonlady9947]
hiya drangonlady I was very upset when I heard the news but I am a lot calmer now. I agree that people have their own faith and I don't expect them to change in any way whatsoever but how can they 'stay away' when they have moved to this country (UK) So why have they come here if they don't want to be amongst us? You have pointed out that you work with different cultures, but children don't work...so they are to only work together in the classroom? even then I am not so sure that they are interacting with the other children in the classroom either, hopefully the nursery teacher will be aware of this and sort it out should it arise. It wasn't my husband it was my son-in-law and why should he change when it is his daughter's school? The only acceptance there was, was when my granddaughter approached the girls to ask them to play. As for the swimming lessons: If they come to our country why should he avert his eyes, they know of our ways when they come to this country so surely they should be the ones to respect that. They could have chosen to take their children to private swimming lessons. I have to take it personally when my granddaughter is crying and believeing that the girls don't like her, how would you feel? That's the problem, most people shout out about rights until they themselves are personally affected by a situation. If they are the sort of people that can influence children from playing with one another then the further away they are the better IMO It has nothing to do with social status here, they are all children in a comprehensive school nursery. Madison does have other friends but she likes to interact with all children, regardless of race or faith. I have no intention of being nasty but will state my opinion when mine are hurt.... that's what's nasty. Thanks for your response. [Aliceinwebland]
I am sad to hear about this. The fact that you are just now seeing it doesnt mean its not everywhere. I have seen so many of these instances on all levels. They are in the black/white roles. Every mixed race/ social status/side of town you live on/the way you wear your hair, clothes, shoes. Even in some instances regarding the foods you eat. I run a homedaycare and am a mixed married family. I am adamant on keeping us all equal. Not the same, but equal. It breaks my heart to see it such a regular basis. I was very happy to see my daughter was invited to a birthday party of an indian child. She was pretty much the only mixed child there, but her family was very nice to her and I. But however, I walk pretty much everyday and there are a lot of asians where I walk. They just walk right past without batting an eye or waving a hand in a hello gesture. So it is really everywhere, you just teach your granddaughter to love everyone no matter what and just stay away from the ones that are isolate her. Its not her fault. Not even the other kids, but it is a fact of life that we cant alter on their side. The best to you and your family Alice. [ladygator]
hiya ladygator As you say we are all different but should be treated as equals and with respect. I have Indian aquaintances and they don't shun us in that way, so it's down to certain individuals who have extreme views. It should never be forced on children, they are the future and if they can't mix as children should what hope is there for the future? Thanks for responding. happy [Aliceinwebland]
Yes, this is very sad. Unfortunately, I think it will be a continuing fight to combat racism. Most people are unadventurous and tend to go for 'safe' options, they go for tradition, whether that is good or bad. Humankind is finding it very difficult to depart from the "tribal" mindset - if you look different to me, you are not to be trusted attitude. So I don't have any lasting answers for this; we just have to do what we can and carry on. By all means fight against this bigotry, but don't burn yourself out in the process, is the message really. ninja [dreamhealer]
It makes perfect sense dreamhealer, I call it trials and tribulations and those that follow like sheep for an easy life will only find they are being led to the slaughter whistle [Aliceinwebland]
As far as I'm concerned, you can't have multiculturalism if you have separatist ideologies. The whole idea behind multiculturalism is to allow cultures to maintain their identities while sharing those cultures with others not of that culture - at least that's how I see it. I benefit from seeing other cultures and I learn and understand more about them. But, if they don't want to associate with me, then I walk away with a negative image and could possibly end up developing opinions based on my reaction to their not wanting to associate. That creates division and division only grows. Racism and other forms of hatred for others is a learned process. If you place toddlers together in a room, all they'll see is other toddlers....until someone points out any differences. Kids just love other kids. It's the adults who ruin it. [jerzgirl]
hiya jerzgirl A very good point you have made here The children are being taught small amounts in the classroom of other cultures, but I expect this is more to make the international children feel more at home and welcomed. But it is not enough IMO, the children need to talk to one another and play together in order to learn about one another. A child is more straightforward and will ask questions, ie: "Why do you wear that veil on your head" and when given a perfectly good reason the child is more prone to accept the answer and get on with playing a game, skipping ropes or whatever. Maybe skipping is against their religion too rolleyes You're right.. It's the adults who ruin it. [Aliceinwebland]
Up or down, left or right, no matter where you look at it, definitely it is wrong. In fact, at such an early age, these parents are already allowing and teaching their kids to be racists. Regarding the muslim parents. It seems like they forgot that they are also being looked down by the others. This is exactly the problem with man. People always think that they are better than the others. Well, you should look at it this way. The US is comprised mostly of white people. Then, President Obama is black. Common sense dictates that many white people voted for President Obama. Therefore, these racists are claiming that the white people are stupid. I think that these people are waging war against their own selves. In the end, you will find that these people will grow up lonely, and thinking that they are better, they will somehow be believing in their own little world. As for you, Indians or not, Blacks or not, Asians or not, racism is therefore a challenge for your kids. This will make them stronger. If your kids will grow up to be a leader, then that will just be an evidence that the present racism pushed your kids to be strong, and therefore, becoming leaders. Your kids do not have to be the president of the US. They can just be leaders in their own field, and people will respect them. That in itself is already victory. [safejunk]
Insecurity does tend to stand out here, but why move to another country if you are not happy there? confused [Aliceinwebland]
Racism is happening at younger and younger ages, though really I think that the comments from the other little girls sounds more like typical of children. I think that it is natural for very young children to separate and categorize because of differences. Is it right? Not really, but there is not really maliciousness as the cause of it. Just stupid kid stuff. My daughter at that age was beginning to realize that the black kids next door were different from her. We are NOT a raciest family and I often would have them over and chat with them in front of her so she could see that we are all people. We watch movies with children of all backgrounds and it did not take her long to follow along, but she still slips sometimes and made a comment to one of her friends about her friend being 'brown' like the fly they were coloring together. I about DIED! But, her friend just smiled and said 'Clara, I'm mixed!' and they just went right on playing like nothing had happened. [dismalgrin]
hiya dismalgrin I think it's great that your daughter has learned not to be racist and most children do follow their parents ways. It's quite possible that the girls did say itof their own accord, but I believe they also copied their parents (if not told directly) not to mix with others. Children do adapt to change and differences and if adults just let them be the world would improve. Thanks for responding [Aliceinwebland]
Hi Alice, sorry to hear about your granddaughter's experience. It must have been really awful. I can relate to that a bit. Unfortunately, racism is just something we can't abolish no matter what our government does. I'm really disappointed at those kids who got to be choosy of who they want to hang out with. It certainly has its roots from their parents. Children learn from what they see and the parents must be careful of what they show their kids. [Jemina]
Religion should be something that binds people. But unfortunately as we have been witnessing for many decades and perhaps centuries, it's the one that causes division among people. sad [Jemina]
Hi Alice, I am shocked about this. It is not normal for children to act like that. As for the father taking his child to swimming, that should not be a problem. It is great when the father is being with his child and taking part in parenting. I was born in Canada, when I moved to Holland, I adjusted to the Dutch. I did the same in Curacao and Belgium. I am doing the same here now in Berlin. I think if you cannot adjust to an other country, then you should not be there. You have to adjust to the country, not the country to you. Take care. [Margajoe]
Yes, I wonder too. That would be a whole different ball game. But the way things are looking, we won't have much to say in the future. They have more baby's than we do. We will be over ruled in about 25 years. That is what a priest said. Well, we will just have to wait and see. Take care Alice. [Margajoe]
Racism is a terrible. Even if parents, and other adults do not mean to, it can be easy to influence a child without even realizing it. Curse Words, racial slurs, all of that type of behavior is bad, and sometimes even as adults they do not realize they are saying it. I don't yet have kids, but one thing we will never teach our kids is to be racist against another race. [SomeCowgirl]
Lol, yes I agree it will take time. look at how long it took me to respond to you! lol! Well I'm glad your having fun, keep up the good mylotting! [SomeCowgirl]
good lord!angry thats terrible. i wish people would come out of the dark ages and all could love each other as the human race we are. i just dont get why parents would not want their kids to be happy and live in the real world. if they teach their children this racsist stuff at such an early age these kids will never be happy. just my opinion. [bunnybon7]
hiya bunnybon The dark ages ... nicely put! because that's exactly what it looks like from where I'm sitting. Judging from the responses it seems that most of us agree that the children have been taught this racism/discrimination, whether directly or indirectly it still boils down to the same thing. Hopefully they will form their own opinion if they are to remain here and grow up in the UK. Thanks for responding happy [Aliceinwebland]
I do agree that racism is taught to kids at a very early age. Kids are clean slates when they are born. It's up to the parent to teach the child these things, and it's sad that some parents are teaching their kids hatred. My kids are raised not to see color, but to see the person as they truly are. My kids have had friends of all colors and races, some bad, some really great kids. As long as there are people on this planet, there will be racism and acne cure, sad to say. I just want my kids to know that not accepting a person because of race and color is unacceptable in my book, and if they do, then they should be ashamed of themselves. [chertsy]
Your welcome, I'm optimist as well. Even if it isn't stamped out, I will be happy knowing that my kids will not treat a person because of race or religion badly. Like that one saying, Treat people as you would like to be treated. I love that saying, and I live by it and so does my kids. [chertsy]
Well, it looks like wonders never cease. Children behavior is attributed by the discipline and rearing of the parents. I know it is true this occurs. I've seen a lot of different stories on the news in the past year about children being affected by racism and hate crimes as well. Thanks for the discussion. [libby2009]
It may well need to. [libby2009]
To start with I thought you were another one on the racist band wagon, the first part of your discussion gave me this idea, but I am glad I read it all the way through. Correct me if I'm wrong, Little Girl is Indian. DADDY can not go with her to swimming class's as the Muslim Women get upset. And play ground little girl is rejected by other Children of other Culture. I look at this as being a MULTI CULTURAL SCHOOL. BOYS and GIRLS learn and play together. It is a mixed Swimming Class's (with PARENTS HELP) To me at Swimming if any parent had a COMPLAIN in a PARENT being at the mixed swimming class maybe they could remove their child/children and find elsewhere to have them taught swimming as this is a mixed Class and PARENTS are welcome. Swimming is a full class activity. Play Ground, seems some CHILDREN do not want to mix, maybe games should be arranged for CHILDREN to play as a mixed group, SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES THE OTHER CHILDREN TO PLAY as a mixed group.Children do not like it when they cant play games, no matter what colour or culture. You could be right, I do not know many CHILDREN who can work out the colour of skin, nor the way some one talks, CHILDREN PLAY AND LEARN TOGETHER. ADULTS seem to have an input here. MAYBE some other ADULTS NEED TO HAVE SOME INPUT ALSO. Just to balance things up. HICCUP/ [hiccup]
If your a Clan Lass I know you will be strong. Thats funny the invaders building a wall to keep out those who they were invading, I'm a low lander and a horse thief, and stood with blade in hand for the thrown of Scotland. Our crest is the Winged Spur. HICCUP/ [hiccup]
thumbdownThis is definitely racism atits worst. The parents are teaching their children to be racists. The children are brought into this world innocent & loving. If the parents would set a good example for their kids, then there would be NO racism. This is a very sad situation for Madison to be involved in. These Indian children will also teach others to be racist, because of their actions towards others....Lori [dumblnddzzy]
hiya Lori That's what baffles me... don't these parent realize that they may be causing other children to turn against thier children by teaching them to behave this way? I think they may have some serious problems growing up in this country if they learn from that wrong attitude. Thanks for responding [Aliceinwebland]