http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/obama-birth-cer.html
The above is a link to the news article about Obama and the controversy over his citizenship and his ability to be sworn in as president. This went around the Net several months back.. and now it is again in the forefront. Why is it now again in the news? If there was a real problem, why wasn't it confronted then back when they were all racing?
McCain was born on board a ship at sea, if he had won the election some might be saying the same about him not being a natural born citizen too... so what is up with all this? I just don't get it. If it is a real problem why wasn't it dealt with BEFORE the election?
Your thoughts?
Questions:
1. If they find Obama is NOT a natural born citizen, will he be sworn in?
2. If Obama can't be president, will Biden become president?
3. Can you undo an election when Obama won it fair and square?
I didn't vote for Pres. Elect Obama, but I feel he won fair and square and I feel that he cannot be kicked out of the presidency. What do you think?
[question posted by OreoCookie3]responses and comments:
The question of his citizenship has been taken up by the federal court system and considered by the Supreme Court. His birth isn't the only question. There is some question as to whether he renounced his US citizenship to attend a foreign school. Some evidence suggests that he did. [CarlKnittel]
Wow! Carl, thanks for explaining this. I would love for McCain to get it after all.. we will wait and see I guess. [OreoCookie3]
Wait just a few minutes kennyrose will respond and give you all of the 411. LMAO [relundad]
Hey, better late than never, right...lol? Annie [anniepa]
This is not new but has been pursued since the spring. It's just that the media never really picked it up. There have been numerous law suits to force Obama to provide his vault certificate. Instead of producing it Obama got his lawyers involved so he wouldn't have to. Pretty much every suit was thrown out if I remember correctly. But more people have filed a suit to get him to produce it, two of them are post-election law suits. Two cases made it to the U.S. Supreme Court, one of which was up for discussion at a meeting of the judges yesterday. That's why it's in the news. I haven't heard whether they decided to pick it up or not. If the Supreme Court decides they want to hear more, they'll have them submit petitions and stuff and set a hearing date. Of course now just some of the media is interested in this stuff, but mostly it's still not important enough, lol;) McCain's natural born citizenship was questioned as well. He has produced the proper birth certificates to remove all doubts as to his qualifications. As I understand it, as a foreign born American at the time you needed to have both parents to be American in order to obtain natural citizenship. Both parents of McCain were American citizens at the time. Now also, a ship with an American flag is still considered American soil as far as I know. There are also exceptions for those kids born to military personnel stationed abroad. If Obama is found not to fulfill the most basic qualification to be President that is required by the constitution he will not be sworn in or he will be kicked out as president. Biden will replace him unless he was in on the conspiracy so to speak. I don't know how it goes on... As to fairness... yes, he was elected but if the allegations are true he cheated and thumbed his nose at the constitution that he'll be sworn to protect. If people would have known this before the election they might not have voted for him, in fact he would have been out of the running. You have to ask yourself, if you want somebody as president who cheated and lied to get there and didn't uphold the constitution... Now this is of course all in case stuff. I doubt the Supreme Court will go far with this. We do, however, need a better system in place to verify a person's eligibility to run for president. Apparently there is no official process in place. [jonesy123]
By the way, the fraud is in the constitution. Article I section 3 paragraph 3 you have to be a citizen for 9 years to serve in the senate. Somone serving the last 4 years in the senate while not a citizen would be guilty of fraud for taking an office he wasn't qualified for. Article 2 section 1 paragraph 5 states only a natural born citizen can be president. Attempting to take that office without meeting the qualifications is fraud. The Supreme court ahs the responsibilty to act on behalf of the United States in legal and constitional matters and the refusal of an elected official to provide proof he is qualified would fall into that jurisdiction. However, Mr Obama will not even become the President Elect until the Electoral college convenes and votes. While this may seem a mere technicality it is one which takes him out of the jurisdiction of congress and the court to inspect. Until elected he is a private citizen candidate with no requirement to prove anything. Truth in advertising laws don't even apply to political campaigns. Until the electors vote for Barack Obama and Mr Obama accepts their appointment he has nothing to prove legally. After that fact he must prove his qualifications and if he attempts to take office without doing so he leaves himself open to fraud charges. [CarlKnittel]
Barack Obama won the popular vote our country is not set up on the popular vote who becomes president is decided by the elector collage and that vote is taken on Dec 15,2009. Millions of American's are waiting to know the verdict of the supream court meeting on Dec 5,2008 they was to meet in reguard to learning the truth is Barack Obama a United States citizen? If four of the nine justice rule to investigation in to Barack Obama's actual birth place they will begin the hearings. It is a very real concern that the justice will side step the United States constitution many Americans are praying they do not do this as it could place the United States in to a constitutional crisis in the end. Mr obama could end this two year nightmare by simply producing his vault birth certificate which would reveal the place of his birth naming the hospital and the doctor in charge of his birth like used treadmills at Kmart. Instead of doing the right thing on Mr Obama's part he had his vault birth certificate sealed and has hired every powerful and costly attorneys as he hides his vault birth certificate with the help of the DNC backing him. If it it learned that Mr Obama is not a American citizen before he is sworn in on Jan 20,2009 the runner up Senator John McCain will be sworn in as the 44 TH president of the United States. If it is learned after January 20,2009 Mr Obama is not an American citizen any laws he put in place will be dismiess and the American people will be facing a constitutional crisis. In the event Mr Obama is in office when it is learned he willfully deceived the American people knowing he was not qualified to be president of the United States because he is not an American citizen then Joe Biden steps up to the plate and he become the president of the United States. It is my conviction following this for a year Mr Obama is not an American citizen pointing out if he was then he would not be hiding his vault birth certificate in the first place. Far as senator John McCain he was born to milatary parents and he has prove he is an American citizen and all of his paper work is in place. Barack obama got this far because to be a United States senator they only have to sign a statement saying they was born in the United States of American. Barack Obama was not vetted by the DNC had they done the job they are paid to do we would not be having this conversation. Barack Obama could run as the democrat candidate with out proof of where he was born that is why no other candidate brought it up during that period they all know that comes at the time of the elector vote. Now the elector collage is to do their job which is fully vet Barack Obama and if they do their job and do not fail the American people like the DNC has they will insist Barack Obama produce his vault birth certificate and at last put this all to rest. The link below is a world net daily article it is in regard to the supreme court Dec 5,2008 meeting in regard to discovering if in deed Barack Obama is an American citizen,it is not yet known how the justice ruled on this very important matter. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82833 [kennyrose]
Thank you for your well thought out answer here. I read the article also. I wonder if he will produce the birth certificate, or if the judges will look the other way on this one? [OreoCookie3]
Well, I did not vote for him either. I feel that if he purposely led use to believe that he was born out here and he wasn't, then he should not be allowed to be the president. If someone lied to him, he better hold them responsible. I have to believe though that America would be sure of his citizenship before electing him. I have not read the article though. I may have a different story after I am done. [Rozie37]
I did some research after reading the link that you provided. Apparently, there are a few private individuals attempting to continue to bring his citizenship into question. But the Supreme Court is going to decide whether or not to even entertain these claims. For the most part America is satisfied in the fact that Barack Obama is in fact a legal U.S. citizen. By the way, I also learned that once he is inaugurated, his citizenship will no longer be an issue. I did not vote for Obama, because of his views on abortion and gay marriage. Other than a few other things, I would have proudly voted for him. Some people are saying that he may be the anti-Christ. All I know for sure is that more than likely, he will be our next president. [Rozie37]
Some people are not happy unless they have challenged everything to it's most rediculous limits. And this is another one. Who is paying for this idiocy anyway? [BCMike]
They have not released the document, but they did verify that it was authentic and in proper order. [BCMike]
Now, that would be a scary thought. If Pelosi was to be President, then would that mean we would have to go through the whole process of finding an new presidental candidate for another election or would the election just go to McCain as winner after Pelosi steps down? Would she have to or would she keep the 4 year term? As for McCain I think that if you are born in International waters then your birth country would be whatever your parents passport says. It would be like my friend that was a service brat. She was born in Rhebot, Morracco, but it was on a Naval installation so she was a American citizen because her parents were. DCMerkle [DCMerkle]
Biden was elected as vice president. If Obama is disqualified before the electoral college appoints him they must elect McCain who recieved the next largest number of votes for president. As I said, no one can force the evidence until Obama is elected which moves Biden into second place. If Biden is shown to have any connection to the cover up then Pelosi, who was not a part of the campaign to my knowledge, is the next in line under the constitution. Unlike possible successors below her on the list, The Speaker of the house is listed under the constitution as the end of the line of succession. As such she would hold the office until the next regular election. If she serves more than half a term she will only be eligable to serve one more term as president. [CarlKnittel]
wow, America.... the american dream, the mother of democracy, the land where anyone have the same opportunity.... LOL [riccinyco]
Only if you qualify. [OreoCookie3]
if he was not eligible to run the united states government would not have let him plain and simple. all the crazy emails are just that, don't pay attention to them, people write all kinds of crap in emails. always check with www.snopes.com or urbanlegends.com and they say these emails are hoaxes. [winterose]
I have learned that because the mainstream media doesn't report it, doesn't mean it isn't true or happening. There have been a lot of very important stories ignored by the main stream, and not just dealing with the elections. [xfahctor]
Now that is somethingto think about. But if they had any doubt you'd think he wouldn't havebeen able to run. So if he doesn't get sworn in then Biden as vice will have to take his place, until he can become a legal citizen. [mtdewgurl74]
Winterose, The problem only Mr Obama knows for certain and being he had his vault birth certificate sealed what ever the problem is he dose not want the American people to discover it. His mother very likely gave up her American citizenship and when she change her son Barack Jr name to Barry Soreto at that time her child may have become a citizen of Indonesia. His mother Stanley Ann Durman stated on legal paper work in Indonesia her son Barry was a Indonesian citizen and he was a Muslin and his faith was Islam this is in stone and on the record. So far as hoopla this is just not at all the case if it was such a very simply thing Mr Obama would not have for the past year hired most expensive and powerful attorneys to help him keep his true identity hide from the eyes of the American people. I think it stands to reason a person that has nothing to hide just dose not hide things in the first place. Many Americans are waiting the ruling of the supreme court which held a special meeting on Dec 5,2008 in regard to Mr Obama's true vault birth certificate and what they decided should be make public on Monday or Tuesday. Far as Mr Obama on record has said his presidency will be transparent if he is a man of his word then he should step up to the plate and reveal the fact as to where he was truely born and put this whole matter to rest once and for all but for more the one year he has refused to do the right thing. What ever Hawaii has on file with out question in my mind is not a legal birth certification,Mr Obama while in Hawaii 5-6 weeks ago had that document sealed same as his vault birth certificate. If Mr Obama had nothing to hide from the American peope while he was in Hawaii at the snap of a finger he could had his vault birth certificate deliver to him but instead he had that documanet seal as well,which tell me with out question what Hawaii has on file indeed is not his vault birth certificate because he was not born in Hawaii,common sense if he was born in Hawaii no problem produce the vault birth certificate like any other true American would do in his shoes. For a man that has nothing to hide Mr Obama has been behaving most oddly this past year or so hiding truth behind courts and the powerful DNC just don't ring to me as an innocent man with nothing to hide. If the supreme court pulls a Judas of old and washes their hands with the case before them it will be passed on to the elector collage and that is where the rubber should meet the road. Our country is not set up on the popular vote it is the job of the elector collage to vet the candidate completely which means call for prove of citizenship and if they do their work correct this matter will be put to rest forever. If they do not do their work and Mr Obama is sworn in on Jan 20,2009 and later the truth is revealed all Mr Obama done acting as president of the United States will be made void and Joe Biden will become president of the United States. If the truth is revealed before Jan 20,2009 most likely because Mr Obama willfully deceived the American people senator John Mccain will take office rightfully so. This matter is of grave importance as it is a United States constitutional matter and it should be viewed in that light by the American people. [kennyrose]
I think it was very clear that when he ran for President of the US it only meant that he is and was QUALIFIED to do so. Questioning his citizenship is just plain sourgraping. It is too late to do that. In the first place he was allowed to cast his candidacy, he got the majority of the people, so what's the problem? If there was any problem regarding his qualifications to run for the highest position of the US it should have been done before he could even campaign for any post. If Obama is not really qualified due to citizenship then he shouldn't have been allowed to run. But he did, won, and now there is no stopping him from being sworn into office. It is stupid to let someone run for office without first going over his credentials. It is obvious that he passed that stage, so people who are questioning his citizenship should now shut up. [veganprince]
Sourgraping implies this is a new question. it is not. It's been around ever since He announced his canditacy and largly because his people questioned McCains citizenship. John McCain produced all requested records and hid nothing. He proved conclusively and beyond reasonable doubt that he was a citizen. Every candidate for office should be willing to do the same. You cannot hold an office in the congress, senate, judiciary or the Oval Office without citizenship. "Barry" seems to be hiding his proof and that raises questions. The recent decision by the Supreme court was unavoidable. He isn't in their jurisdiction until the electoral college votes. until then he's a candidate and nothing more. [CarlKnittel]
This has got to be one of the strangest stories I've ever heard of. I mean, just to try to get any up to date news about it is close to impossible, such as if the Supreme Court was supposed to decide on Friday if they were going to hear this case what was their decision? Also, exactly what are these people accusing Obama of? I've heard he wasn't born in Hawaii, I've heard the current case alleges that while they concede he was born in Hawaii he isn't an American citizen because his father was a British citizen and I guess there are even more different stories. Everyone also has a different story of who would be sworn in as President if by some small chance it were determined Obama isn't eligible. All I know is this country has been far too divided for far too long! Heck, it started back when Clinton was elected, there were many people who never "accepted" him then the whole Monica scandal came to light and we wasted how much time and how much money on that? Then we had the election of 2000 which went to the Supreme Court and the whole Bush Presidency has been full of controversy and division. I'm not pointing fingers of blame at anyone, there's no point in going over all that again here, but let's just suffice it to say it's been a rough time and except for that brief period of time right after 9/11 we've hardly been the "United" States of America. This election campaign has been the dirtiest ever and there have been so many hard feelings, so many things said among friends that have done permanent damage but at the end of the day on November 4 I was hopeful we could start to heal again. It wouldn't happen over night, I know that, but I was optimistic that it could happen eventually. However with this stuff happening now, if the right tilted Supreme Court were to rule against Obama somehow I can't see how that can bode well for our nation at all. With all the problems we face right now, and we're in a he11 of a mess without a doubt, how can this do anyone any good? The people clearly don't want Bush to remain in office beyond Jan. 20 until this can be resolved, I think that's clear because many wish there were a way to have him step down sooner; they don't want it to be given to McCain/Palin or they would have won on election day and this time it wasn't even close. All I know is they have to make a decision one way or another and make it NOW and let that be the end of it. I'd love to go back to simply being an American and not being told I'm not a real American or that I'm stupid or ignorant and not having those who feel differently from me being told those things either. Annie [anniepa]
Well, apparently the Supremes have chosen not to hear this particular case but who knows if there will be more to come. I mean, I know there have been other cases filed but some have been thrown out in lower courts. Cookie, I wish I were an attorney sometimes! Or at least more of a history and/or Constitutional expert. There are so many different opinions and interpretations of how this scenario and that scenario could be decided and quite frankly, I'm totally confused! I guess what threw me most is how first the argument was Obama allegedly wasn't born in the U.S. then it was that his mother had relinquished his U.S. citizenship when he was a child and in this last case it was said it was because his father was a British citizen. So many of the various arguments contradict each other. All I know is I don't want some kind of a Constitutional crisis or a civil war and I don't want our country to remain so divided. Let's just hope for the best for our country no matter what happens! We've been through tough times before, I think we'll make it this time, right? Annie [anniepa]
Could we be so lucky as to not have him end up becoming our president? Something about him creeps me out. [hllywdprncss76]
I have no idea. I have been on the fence about him for ages. On the one hand I liked what he said, but the things he says are just things we want to hear. Then another thing is his Robin Hood type of money management doesn't set well with hard working people. What I don't trust about him is his ties to undesirable people who hate America and what it stands for. I would never go to a church with a pastor that would say "God Da.mn America." In the beginning I felt he might be trying to undo America from the inside... and then when he won the election I resigned myself to him being president. [OreoCookie3]
1` it is already unimportant , Obama be now ! 2` maybe Biden will 3` to be a Asians , im not sure Obama had be prefectly justifiable now , no one can change ` [myskina]
No it isn't too late. If the truth comes out before he is inaugurated and the Supreme court decides against him he could be in a lot of hot water. Welcome to mylot Myskina. [OreoCookie3]
I believe this to be a case of people not letting sleeping dogs lay, so to speak. I do believe that if this were a problem it would have been addresses before he was in the running or even asked to run. He won, people let him show us what he will do. Get over it. I didn't vote for the man either, but he won...give him his due. [moondancer]
I do agree and know to what lengths "they" will go to to get a certain person in office. [moondancer]
From all the places I have checked on this it is what they call semi true. Apparently there is a birth certificate from Hazaii that had been challenged. Some said it was a modified version of his sisters certificate. Other said it was forged. The story is fading fast and I do believe you will see Obama as the next president with no questions being asked. I agree that he did win fair and square with a little mud slinging by both sides. I don't feel the bit comfortable thinking of Biden as our next president. I do believe all this will fall by the way side the cloer we get to 20 January. [eeyore39]
I just wonder what the answer will be in the Supreme Court. So far we don't know. Why hasn't the decision been handed down to the public yet? They already made their decision yesterday I think or the day before. [OreoCookie3]
This case has nothing to do with any sort of alleged fraud on the part of anyone. The plaintiff is asking the Supreme Court to make a decision on what constitutes a "natural born citizen. The contention of the case is that Barack Obama cannot be a natural born citizen because his father was a British citizen, thus Obama can claim dual citizenship. This has never been in contention before. Other cases have contended that: a) Obama was not born in Hawaii, but in Kenya. b) Obama's mother gave up her citizenship to marry Barry Soweto, and when she did, she also gave up Obama's citizenship. c) Obama never took a sworn oath renouncing Kenyan citizenship and taking on US citizenship. d) Obama had Indonesian citizenship at some point because he must have had an Indonesian passport to travel when he was in his teens. e) Obama is not a natural born citizen because one of his parents was not a US citizen at the time of his birth. f) There is even apparently some question that Stanley Anne Dunham is not Barack Obama's mother, though I'm not sure if any lawsuit has tried to claim that. I have seen it floated around. None of these contentions have been proven as far as I've been able to find out. The ONLY one of those causes that would be set to rest by releasing the "vault birth certificate" is whether he was born in Hawaii. Ths Supreme Court was supposed to decide on Friday whether they would hear the case. Either one or two Supreme Court judges had already refused to introduce the case to the Supreme Court before Clarence Thomas agreed to introduce it in this session. A decision may have been made on Friday, and we will know whether they decided to hear it when their schedule of cases is published on Monday. If they decided not to hear it, some people will scream collusion of some sort or another. If they decide to hear it and reject the argument, it will probably be appealed to keep the issue alive. Even if it isn't, other cases in other states will continue to be brought trying to prove one of the other contentions. If they decide to hear it and agree that Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen because his father was not a US citizen, that decision will also be appealed - not only because of Obama but because the ruling will affect the citizenship status of possibly millions of Americans who were born of marriages between US citizens and legal aliens. 1. Even if the Supreme Court decides that Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen because one of his parents was not a citizen at the time of his birth, that ruling has never been made before. The Supreme Court is essentially being asked to interpret the meaning of "natural born citizen" in a way that it has never been interpreted because the Constitution does not specify the meaning of natural born citizen. The specifics of "natural born citizen" are defined by the US Code Title 8, Section 1401 ( read it at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html ) Under this code, Obama is a natural born citizen EVEN IF he was born in Kenya under THIS section: (g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; Obama's mother was a US citizen by birth. She had lived all of her life in the United States, including the required two years (not five as Philip Berg's suit contends) after age 14. Obama was born in 1961, well after December 24, 1952. That makes him a natural born citizen, no matter WHERE in the world he was born UNLESS the Supreme Court decides to hear the case and change the current legal meaning of natural born citizen. 2. If Obama can't be president, I suspect the next step will be to either force another election or for the electoral college to not be allowed to consider Obama in voting for president. In that case, the electoral college may consider any of the other candidates, but McCain is the most likely. 3. Obama only won the popular election. It's not official until the electoral college makes their votes, so there wouldn't be any "undoing". [chameleonsdream]
FINALLY! Great response, chameleonsdream...accurate, informative and gleefully lacking in far out theories. Oreo, the members of the Electoral College can't simply switch their vote at will. They have pledged to vote a certain way and, if they fail to do so, they are actually be in violation of the law in 24 states, I believe. It's been awhile since I read about it but electors act as a functionary of the state, not as individual voters. Since Obama won by such a large number of electoral votes it wouldn't matter if a few tried to switch anyway. [spalladino]
Obama was chosen by the majority of the Amercians to become their president. The wish of the majority should be respected. © ronaldinu 2008 [ronaldinu]
My question is here if the electoral college will honor that vote or switch their vote to McCain anyway. I have read that the popular vote doesn't always win the election. [OreoCookie3]
then where is the idea that america has been trying to put across the world???? democracy??? invading iraq and afganistan is that democracy??? if they want a civil war in the states then go ahead... the economy is staggering by the day. obama is ready to fix it. so why waste time on his citizenship??? all that native american crap is stupid. THE PEPOPLE WANTED CHANGE OBAMA IS HERE. SO LET THE COURTS AND THAT LAWYER STOP WASTING TAXPAYERS MONEY ON THIS. HE IS THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT. WHEN MINORITY STARTS RULING MAJORITY HAS A SUCKER PUNCH...... [benicrakk]
There is nothing improper about the court aor the legislature inspecting the qualifications of a person elected to office. in fact it is thier constitutional duty. Failing to do so would create a genuine constitutional crisis. Impeachment is touted as a constitutional crisis but is in fact constitutional law. Failing a constitutional duty is a crises. Defying the constitution is a crises. it's always amazed me that with all the demands to impeach Bush no one ever tried to do so when they had the chance. Congress, the Senate, the President and the court all admitted that McCain/Feingold violated the constitution but they passed it anyway. All of them swore oaths to uphold the constitution and violating those oaths is an impeachable offense in all three branches of government. [CarlKnittel]
I'm not sure how all of it will actually turn out. they knew all of these things before he was elected and while he was running for office. I do not really see him being impeached either but I do eventually see where he will have to show the American people proof of things. [stephcjh]
Hi Steph, I just hope that the Supreme Court will bring some sort of end to this so our country can begin to heal and get on track again. One of my other responders made a good point that the supreme court is being called upon to decide what natural born citizen means... so it could be settled soon. [OreoCookie3]
here is another article where congress will be looking at the eligibility for presidency as well, mccain was not born on american soil, they mention him in the article, http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/06/02/expats_ed3_.php?page=2 [winterose]
he has already proven in at it was authenicated have you read all that I posted on here about the subject, I provided the sources as well in different posts on this discussion. [winterose]
This has gotten so out of hand. Does anyone really know where B. Obama was born? Some say he was born in Kenya and some say in Hawaii. It was stated that his mother applied for a US birth certificate when she returned to the states with her son, Barry. It will take a court order to get him (Obama) to reveal the truth because when he visited Hawaii, to see his white grandmother before she died, he had all his records sealed. Even his school records. He is relying on this to keep the American citizens from knowing the truth about him. Just what is he trying to hide? I for one think he is NOT a natural born citizen and should not be able to hold any Government office. Why so much work to cover up what all other people who was running for President promptly released to let everyone know all the facts about them?? Shouldn't the USA demanded this information before he was able to run for any government office, especially for the presidential office? Guess we will have to wait until December 15th to know who will really be eligible to be our next president. I just hope they uphold our Constitution and either demand this information or put him out. I'm not sure what will happen or just who will take office. I would hope there would be some way to vote again but that isn't the way things work in Washington D.C. Whom ever does take office I do not see any leader who will get us out of the mess we have made in this country. [Kowgirl]
This is why I have said all along I did not know who Barack Obama was. He was a mystery.. and now he is concealing his true identity of his origins to profit from the highest job in the land. [OreoCookie3]
Summary: Email rumor claims that Barack Obama is ineligible to become president because according to the laws in effect at the time of his birth he is not a natural-born citizen of the United States. Description: Email rumor Circulating since: June 2008 Status: False CAN OBAMA BE PRESIDENT? It seems that Barack Obama is not qualified to be president after all for the following reason: Barack Obama is not legally a U.S. natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth, which falls between "December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986? Presidential office requires a natural-born citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. citizen parents, which of course is what exempts John McCain though he was born in the Panama Canal. US Law very clearly stipulates: ".If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16." Barack Obama's father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama's mother was only 18 when Obama was born, which means though she had been a U.S. citizen for 10 years, (or citizen perhaps because of Hawai'i being a territory) the mother fails the test for being so for at least 5 years **prior to** Barack Obama's birth, but *after* age 16. It doesn't matter *after*. In essence, she was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. citizenship. At most, there were only 2 years elapsed since his mother turned 16 at the time of Barack Obama's birth when she was 18 in Hawai'i. His mother would have needed to have been 16+5= 21 years old, at the time of Barack Obama's birth for him to have been a natural-born citizen. As aformentioned, she was a young college student at the time and was not. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at that time his mother would have needed to have waited to have him as the only U.S. Cizen parent. Obama instead should have been naturalized, but even then, that would still disqualify him from holding the office. *** Naturalized citizens are ineligible to hold the office of President. *** Though Barack Obama was sent back to Hawaii at age 10, all the other info does not matter because his mother is the one who needed to have been a U.S. citzen for 10 years prior to his birth on August 4, 1961, with 5 of those years being after age 16. Further, Obama may have had to have remained in the country for some time to protect any citizenship he would have had, rather than living in Indonesia. Now you can see why Obama's aides stopped his speech about how we technically have more than 50 states, because it would have led to this discovery. This is very clear cut and a blaring violation of U.S. election law. I think the Gov. of California would be very insterested in knowing this if Obama were elected President without being a natural-born U.S. citizen, and it would set precedence. Stay tuned to your TV sets because I suspect some of this information will be leaking through over the next several days. Comments: False. Barack Obama is, in fact, a natural-born citizen of the United States, for the simple reason that he was born on American soil (in Hawaii, two years after it acquired statehood). The age and citizenship status of Obama's parents at the time have no bearing on Obama's own citizenship. Any confusion on this point is the result of misunderstanding the legal concepts of jus sanguinis (right of blood) and jus soli (right of birthplace). Here's how the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service explains the difference: The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees citizenship at birth to almost all individuals born in the United States or in U.S. jurisdictions, according to the principle of jus soli. Certain individuals born in the United States, such as children of foreign heads of state or children of foreign diplomats, do not obtain U.S. citizenship under jus soli. Certain individuals born outside of the United States are born citizens because of their parents, according to the principle of jus sanguinis (which holds that the country of citizenship of a child is the same as that of his / her parents). It is a fact that under the provisions of Article Two of the U.S. Constitution naturalized citizens are ineligible to hold the office of president, but this disqualification does not apply to Barack Obama, who has been a citizen since birth. UPDATE: Is Barack Obama's birth certificate invalid? Self-styled "experts" have questioned the validity of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate as posted online, but after examining the actual physical document, investigators at Factcheck.org (Annenberg Public Policy Center) concluded it is authentic. The state of Hawaii has also affirmed its validity. Read the details... UPDATE: Berg v. Obama lawsuit dismissed A federal lawsuit filed in Pennsylvania by attorney Philip J. Berg charged that Obama was either born or naturalized in a foreign country and is therefore ineligible for the office of President. The case was thrown out of court on Friday, October 24, 2008 by U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick, who concluded in his decision that Berg's arguments were, among other things, "frivolous and not worthy of discussion." Read the details... [winterose]
Hi Coffeebreak... it wasn't bothered with before because there was nothing negative being said about Obama.. he was being protected by the media.. but now it has gone before a judge... and they aren't going to bother with it from what I heard... it will go to the electors on the 15th.. and we will see if the electors choose him or McCain... I didn't know this until a few years ago, but the electoral college can choose who they want, so the candidate that won the popular vote still could come off not winning... I expect Obama to be the official winner on the 15th... but wouldn't it be a surprise if he wasn't? I remember someone saying before that the members of the electoral college can decide who they will vote for over a bunch of beers.. wouldn't that be a hoot if that were true? [OreoCookie3]
I've wondered this myself for so long - why wasn't it dealt with during the election - or prior to that even? Why didn't the Rep's make issue of it? Why isn't the legal system making issue with it? Why doesn't Obama prove it to be wrong and shut everyone up? But the way things work up there on "the hill", he'll be sworn in and if anything comes of this it will take so long for any ruling that he'll have run his second term and at best, leave a little early if found to not have been a citizen. Guess we'll see... [coffeebreak]
YOu got that right. It's been all over tarnation! [coffeebreak]
FactCheck.org Annenberg Political Fact Check Home | About Us | Privacy | Copyright | Contact Us Supporting Documents Click to view documentBirth certificate photo 1: Fold and seal (.jpg 1.35 mb) Click to view documentBirth certificate photo 2: Full certificate (.jpg 1.62 mb) Click to view documentBirth certificate photo 3: Full certificate (.jpg 1.23 mb) Click to view documentBirth certificate photo 4: Top third (.jpg 1.88 mb) Click to view documentBirth certificate photo 5: Middle third (.jpg 1.97 mb) Click to view documentBirth certificate photo 6: Bottom third (.jpg 1.8 mb) Click to view documentBirth certificate photo 7: Stamp and seal (.jpg 2.18 mb) Click to view documentBirth certificate photo 8: Seal (.jpg 1.62 mb) Click to view documentBirth certificate photo 9: Stamp (.jpg 1.61 mb) Explore FactCheck Just the Facts! Home FactCheck Home FactCheck Archive Ask FactCheck Home Ask FactCheck Archive FactCheck Connections Get the E-mail Get the Feed FactCheck Mobile Subscribe | Unsubscribe Change Address Email to a Friend Printer Friendly Version Born in the U.S.A. August 21, 2008 Updated: November 1, 2008 The truth about Obama's birth certificate. Summary In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake." We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution Photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said. Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii's Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu. Analysis Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate. Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night. Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done." Fukino said she has personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures." Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News. Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life? Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site? Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it. Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate? Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce. Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are: * The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal. * It isn't signed. * No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version. * In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters. * The certificate number is blacked out. * The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008. * The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth." Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs. The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp The raised seal Blowup of text You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes. The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above. The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response. The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process. We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641. Blowup of certificate number Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible. We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen." We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world's biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything's possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what's reasonable has to take over." In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961: Obama's birth announcement The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu. Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement [winterose]
If there is no issue, then why is it at the Supreme Court? That is the 6 million dollar question. [OreoCookie3]
This is quite disturbing. I wonder why the press is picking this one now when it ignored this issue before the election. I think the people of the press has been really bias during the campaign which is a very sad thing. [alindahaw]
What difference does it make now if McCain is or isn't? He isn't going to be the next president. Why look into his? WHy is that even issue to speak about now? IT is just something the media and Obama and Dem's are using to try to tweak the spot light - sad thing is, it might work [coffeebreak]
OreoCookie, We will know the ruling by the supreme court on Monday or Tuesday. Justice Clarence Thomas was handed the case by justice David Souter who refused it and from there it went to a special meeting,I don't know very much about justice Clarence Thomas other then he is a black man and when he was appointed I was very glad that he was. It appears him excepting the case before the supreme court he very well may be a upright man who reads the constitution as he should as that is his job. People that have invested many hours and many tens of thousands dollars out of their own pockets to fight Barack Obama to enforce him to produce his vault birth certificate which alone will state the name of the hospital he was born at and the name of the attending doctor at the time of his birth. If four supreme justice vote to investigate the case before them they will then process which would enforce Barack Obama to come forth with the legal birth certificate that he had sealed years ago. If the supreme court dose such as Judas of old and washes their hands with the case before them it will be passed to the elector collage. It is the work of the elector collage to completly vet Barack Obama so their again Obama will be enforced to produce his vault birth certificate. If non do their work correctly it will be even a bigger mess then it already is with out question. Senator John McCain was born during his father time in the milatary and both of his parents was United States citizens so John McCain would not be having the problem Mr Obama is having as he hides behind the powerful DNC and the court system hiding his vault birth certificate. If it is learned at any time Mr Obama entered the presidential contest by fraud he very likely will be fined big time and could face prison time,so Mr Obama a very intelligent man known the rules going in to the games and he knows the high stakes he is playing. It is not until the elector collage votes on Dec 15,2008 that Barack Obama is even president elect,so on Dec 15,20008 then it is all actually determined by the elector collage vote, our country is not set up on the popular vote,and thsi is why Bush & Gore case ended up at the supream court. Most think the supreme court will pull a Judas and wash their hands with it and pass it on to the elector collage,that will actually be unjust but they are in power to do what ever they want to do,many Americans just hope and pray that they will do the right thing as it just takes four justice to get this ball rolling. [kennyrose]
Karlk, Yes that is right now it is left to the electors beings no one else cared to do their job and vet Barack obama,the elector's don't vet but they should know for certain that the person is an Amerian citizen before they cast their vote. Barack Obama has hired powerful attorneys to keep his citizenship a secret and it is not knows if he is an American citizen. Being Obama is hiding his vault birth certificate looks like he for dammed sure he don't want any one to know where he was actually born. Just the fact Obama is hiding his vault birth certificate if I was an elector I dam sure would not cast my vote for him and I do not believe a responsible person would with out knowing his true citizenship unless they are part of a political machine that has an agenda. [kennyrose]
Isn't it weird.. I read John McCain was born on a U.S. military base in Panama. [chunijole]
Military is the key word... the same as American soil. He had two American parents... so there is no issue with him... US Military is always considered American soil. [OreoCookie3]
According to constitutional law, if its proven that Obama is not an American citizen then Biden would not be President by default. It would go to the person who one the second most electoral votes, McCain. [gitfiddleplayer]
Great Idea but Biden ran for VP and didn't get any electoral votes. the next highest number of electoral votes is McCain which is why some folks want the situation resolved before the inoguration. After the inoguration it falls to line off succession, Biden and Pelosi. Many would love to eliminate that possibility. Personally, I like both of them better than Obama. [CarlKnittel]
Oreocookie, The link below is the Attorney that has his case before the supreme court and they reviewed his case on Dec 5,2008,I read his blog at the link below and it appears Justice Clarence Thomas is a man that stands upon the proper reading of the United States constitution and for that my hat is off to this decent good man. and the world need more good men in high places such as justice Clarence Thomas. The supream court being the highest court of the land can do as they choose in regard to anything that comes before then because they have that much power from washing their hands with a case to turning a blind eye to truth and facts. The millions of American people that honor our forefathers,country and the United States constitution may know as early as tomorrow the ruling of the supreme count o nthe case placed before trhem on Dec 5,2008. You re correct in regard to Senator John McCain both his parents was American citizens at the time of their son birth and he is qualified to be president of the United States. It also is true if Barack Obama is forced to produce his vault birth certificate and it is found he is not an American citizen this Nov 4,2008 election goes to Senator John McCain. if Obama is swore in to office then afterward it is discovered everything Obama did acting as president is completly void out and Joe Biden become president of the United States and the people of the United States will be placed in to a constitutional crisis. The right thing to do in this case is for Mr Obama to step up to the plate and do the right thing simply produce his vault birth certificate unless indeed he has much to hide from the American people. Check out the link below and there you can read it from the Horses mouth this is the attorney that has his case before the supreme court as we speak and the ruling may come as early as tomorrow morning. http://www.blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/article/30255.html?US+SUPREME+COURT+TAKES+EXTRAORDIN [kennyrose]
Oreoocookie, Ya most involved in the case that was before the supreme court the other day excepted them to do just what they did which was nothing so it was not any surprise. Not that it would change any thing but I think the Berg-VS Obama case which was amended by attorney Philip Berg is to go before the nine supreme justice tomorrow 12/10/08 and if that is so they will do the dammed same thing nothing. Now today big trouble coming out of Chicago the Gov was cuffed this morning he is out under a $45,000 bond unless he runs and hides or hangs himself he s going to prison for up to twenty years. He has been under investigation for three years for numbers of dirty political corruption games in Chicago. They busted him today for attempting to sell Barack Obama open senate seat to the highest bidder. Even tho Barack Obama has a circle of people around him that seem to always have their hands in to something he has said this morning he is sadden and sober in regard to the news coming out Chicago and he knew nothing about it. It seems to me there has been a steady stream of people that Barack Obama knows but has not idea as to what they have done or what they are doing. Anyway so far he has gotten away with just about everything guess he is actually above the law. [kennyrose]
If they didn't want him in office why did they vote for him their are a lot of people in congress and in goverment that is not American born [Cajunhellcat]
The issue was suppressed months ago and has come up again... nothing was being said negatively about Obama by the media.. it was all focused on McCain because he was the bad guy they didn't want... so it was slanted that way to the left... that's the way I see it, because all the bad focus was on the right and the good focus was on the left. I didn't write the constitution Hellcat, so I can't answer that question.. but I wonder if the electors are going to honor the popular vote, or do something different due to all this.... time will tell on the 15th I guess. [OreoCookie3]
he's not my president.. i doesnt really makes much difference to me who gets to be the president, but i guess the clear question is why was he allowed to contest / run for the presidential elections, if there was ever any doubt about his citizenship.. shouldnt all these questions about his eligibility to even put him in the running, be dealt way, way, way before this... ?? confused if he is denied his place his place in the white house.. wouldnt that just be cause and reason for some 'unrest' to spark in the states.. ??... worrying thought..cry [4mymak]
Hello my friend OreoCoookie3 Ji, Well, I smell some wasted imnterest ,whowant to fish in troubled water, and want to create hindrence to take over by Obama Ptrseident elect. There have always been hinderences, and things have been straightened upto its extremes. am very mch opeful that Obama only will be sworn in as next President on Jan 20, 2009 . May god bless him and you and everyone here. Have a great time. [maygodblessu44]