I wonder what it was like for Joe the Plumber to hear his name mentioned so much in the presidential debate? He said it floored him. He makes a good point.. why should he be penalized for being successful? To bring on socialism to try to take away from the successful to spread the wealth around... how is that fair to Joe the Plumber and other people like him that are successful? Why should they pay more taxes? If you haven't seen Joe's statement on TV it is here in this link....note this is NOT a referral link...
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=10233736&ch=4226716&src=news
[question posted by OreoCookie3]responses and comments:
Hey Oreo... I agree with Joe, too. That "spreading the wealth", to anyone who knows a little bit of past history is totally frightening by its implications. I saw Joe on t.v. today, yes. People being punished for having a good job and making more money by paying a higher tax percentage? I just don't see the fairness (or wisdom!) Go after the government spending instead, sheesh! [katiedoubleu]
I agree.. why should someone who works hard and is successful be penalized. If he/she is going to be taxed another 3% above everyone else that is making an example of the successful and might even make them not want to try so hard to achieve, when their efforts are penalized. Spreading the wealth could start with stopping these spendings for things like over head projectors and research on stuff that will never amount to anything... spreading the wealth could also start by them taking care of their own without handing it all the the countries that don't even like us.... it seems everyone has their hand out all the time expecting the government to support them. The trouble is it isn't really the government.. it is the working people who are paying, and the working people who happen to make over a quarter million dollars will get gouged the most just because the are successful. [OreoCookie3]
I agree with plumber Joe and why should anyone take the money that work hard for and give it to someone else? Sadly, that what may happen since, I am a McCain supporter but I do not think he is going to win. If we got to spread the wealth around why would anybody want to work for it? I think it will backfire and we will wind up in a depession. [hoping4amiracle]
yes it is the right thing [sun12341]
The dems hate success, that's means a free market gave them that success and you must be some rich evil person and you're hoarding your wealth and not giving it to the bums who think government should take care of them. Every body has their hand out because its become a way of life, the government can't give their own money so they have to tax you, the rich person, whatever that means, so they can give it the lazy frickin jerk who doesn't want to work. I would have slugged Stupidbama right there on the spot, what a frickin little socialist he is. [gitfiddleplayer]
"to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities." Marxism, Communism, socialism... Call it what you want it has never worked anywhere for anyone. It was the first government settlers of north America used in the colony at Plymouth Rock. Everyone made enough for themselves and when the winter was harsher than expected more than half of them died. The next year they went to free market economy and after that they had surpluses of all their supplies. Spreading the wealth around is theft. the constitution allows taxation to provide for the operation of government but taxation for the purpose of wealth redistribution is a violation of the constitution. it constitutes theft. It's purpose is communist and it always fails. Under Carter the top marginal tax rate was 95%(taxing the rich). we had double digit inflation unemployment and interest rates and the longest/worst recession since the Great Depression as a result. Class envy may lead to winning elections but it causes nothing but pain for the country [CarlKnittel]
They actually interviewed Joe after the debate on TV. He said he had already voted but would not say who he voted for. He did give some positive vibes toward Mccane and his health plan. I just wonder how many plumbers in the country are named Joe. You are absolutely right though. People want everything for nothing these days. No one wants to have to work for what they get. They think the successfull should pay the way for them. They do not realize if the successfull stay out of things there are not jobs, wages or health plans for them to complain about. I am getting so sick and tired of people whinning about everything rather than getting off their fat butts and doing something constructive to change things. [eeyore39]
Obama came to Joe's driveway, Asked Joe's opinion and then let his campaign and his friends in the press try to destroy Joe when he didn't like what Joe had to say. Solution: Stay away from Joe's property. Both his driveway and his money. No more complaints from Joe. [CarlKnittel]
We already tax people who make more money at a higher rate, we've been doing that forever. And the sad truth is, how much money a person makes is not necessarily proportionate to how hard they work. There are people who work hard and get paid a pittance, and others who have cushy easy jobs and make a fortune. The conservatives believe in the ideal notion that if you work hard, you make a lot of money, if you're poor it's your own fault because you don't work hard enough. But real life doesn't work that way. Obama's tax plan is to help the hard working people who are just making minimum wage or a little above. Besides which, Joe the Plumber doesn't make $250K a year and it's probably going to be a long time before he does. Even if a small business pulls in that much, the actual INCOME of the owner is going to be much less, and the taxes are on personal income. [philjas]
Joe, My Neighbor, who lives about 15 minutes or so from me, Is currently working under the license of the plumber who owns the business. That plumber is getting ready to retire and Joe is arranging to buy the business from him. Since the business is a proprietorship and not a corporation, all of the business' income is taxed as personal income to the owner. If Joe buys the business his income bracket moves near the $250k mark. If he hires someone else to replace his position as employee it moves over the $250k mark and the tax plan will charge him enough to make the business less profitable than if he didn't have an employee. As for the license that is part of the process of buying the business and working towards that license is why he went to work for an experienced plumber in the first place. Instead of attacking Joe keep your candidate out of Joe's driveway and you won't have the problem. [CarlKnittel]
Don't mention the term "Socialism" too loudly. Some hard-core Obama supporters don't take well to that term. I totally agree with Joe. Why should MY money be given to YOU, Oreo, or ANYONE ELSE? Redistribution of wealth! BULL! Memo to self: Socialism, Communism, call it what you will, it's on its way! (C) 2008 RJScott [rjscott]
No, wasn't me; I've been a green five for months now, but you know I also had the blue ten at one time. LOL [MSV1313]
I saw him and the debate. I agree with Joe the Plumber. Just because from my hard work and sweat someone, (the government) wants to take more of my hard earned money and give it to others. That is way unfair to me and others in the same position. They take too much as it is. They need to learn to get by on less of ur money and start giving their own. They get $15,000. a month and pay no taxes on it. What's fair about that. An outrageous rate of pay they "give" themselves and expect us to leive on the paltry amounts we earn every month. They need to take less in pay and pay taxes on what they get, then they might know how the rest of us feel. [moondancer]
This is a sad time for the man and his family, it's the churches responsibility to help people no matter what. The man gave in good faith to the church. Most churches will help their family of parishers. They should. And using the taxes and government as an excuse not to help them is a travesty. That's just the way I feel about it. That's why I am so leary of some churches, they take and take and do not give back to the families that go there or anyone else. It's sad really, because that's what they are suppose to do. It's not put their hands out and plates out for help and ask for donated Gifts and help then not recipicate. [moondancer]
For those that are unaware the current tax tables are a good reference. Look at them and you will see that the more you make the more you pay. Joe the "unlicensed" plummer avoids paying taxes by: 1. not getting a required by law license 2. making some money on the tax table less than some rung on the ladder When Joe the "unlicensed" plummer makes more than he currently does in this taxable year at some point he will he will pay more simply because he makes more. His complaint is purely hypothetical, "If, someday, I make over $250k I will be taxed more. Why?" The more accurate question is, "If tomorrow I make more than I'm making today I will taxed more. That is the way the tax table are constructed. Why is that?" Joe the illegal and "unlicensed" plummer is a patsy and McCain pounced on that to his try to take advantage. For those of us that know the real issue McCain missed. [dlnieto]
When Joe, the Gainfully employed, Taxpaying, plumbers Apprentice finishes his training with the master plumber he works for he will be able to get the license he doesn't qualify for yet. At that point he becomes the master plumber and his boss can retire, selling the business to him and putting him in the position of being a proprietor. Since tax laws see all income from a proprietorships as individual income he will find himself in the $250,000 er $190,000 er $170,000 er $150,000 er $120,000 plus per year tax bracket most recently announced by Obama's VP to be the only group that will have their taxes raised. Seems to me we got the same, word for word, promise from Bill Clinton who then raised taxes on every tax bracket and placed taxes on social security benefits for the first time in history. By the way, those are my state laws your talking about. Don't waste my time talking about laws you obviously don't know. Joe's not only legal he's union. That's why he has to work as an apprentice before he's considered fully trained. I suppose the AFL-CIO and their friends in the plumbers union use those training programs to help their members doge the tax man and avoid paying license fees, Right? [CarlKnittel]
i am sick to death of hearing anything to do w/the election. poor ol' joe, don't guess he was expecting all the references to him. i thought they both overdid it. [ANTIQUELADY]
Joe the lying, tax evading, illegal, unlicensed, plummer should outta get a job, pay taxes, get a license, and keep his big mouth shut. I hope he doesn't run for office, we don't need another lying, tax evading, illegal W in any sort of office. [dlnieto]
Do any of you get to deduct the following when filing your income taxes? Your car payments for the year? Your auto insurance payments for the year? Your gas for the year? Your electric bills for the year? Your water bills for the year? Your heating bills for the year? Your phone bills for the year? Your cell phone bills for the year? Your travel expenses for the year? Your bank service charges for the year? Your property taxes? Can you depreciate the value of your vehicles? Can you depreciate the value of your home? Not only can businesses deduct these expenses, they can also deduct the amount of money they have paid to employees, independent contractors, outsourced Payroll companies, advertising costs for the entire year. If they manufacture anything they can deduct the cost of the material they purchase, they can deduct delivery charges...and the list goes on and on. If, after all of these items (and I'm sure there are some I've overlooked) are deducted from the gross earnings and someone has a net income of over $250,000, that is NOT a small business. This person has ALREADY realized the American dream. I fail to understand why it is considered to be so unfair to increase the tax rate for business owners who already get so many tax breaks. As I understand it, only the amount above $250,000 of net income will be taxed at the higher rate. Why is it that no one cares about the middle income wage earners, especially those of us who's children are grown and who no longer receive the Child Tax Credit or qualify for the Earned Income Credit? [spalladino]
Lower taxes and smaller government are conservative ideas. Larger taxes and bigger government are liberal ideas. These are basic components in the definition of liberal and conservative so it has everything to do with being liberal. I'm a trucker. I can write off more things than the average business owner and for the same reason. You can't call it income if it is an expense necessary to do business. Like a business owner I cannot do my job without spending money for office supplies, tools, special clothing, consumables, meals on the road, hotel bills and a lot of other things. As a result the money I and business people spend on those expenses doesn't count as income and shouldn't count as income. Without spending that money we cannot make a living. by the way, if you use your car to go to work you can deduct a lot of those expenses too. The same goes for using your cell phone, clothing expenses if your job has a dress code or uniform and a lot of other things. Like me and the business owner you don't have to pay taxes on income used to earn your income. [CarlKnittel]
Hi Oreo. I try to stay away from political discussions but this one intrigued me. Poor Joe. I think he got more attention than he bargained for. I was on the fence about who to vote for, but last night's debate sealed it for me. NOBAMA! [awonderfullife]
I hear ya! I think he did get more than he bargained for...now everybody knows that he is not licensed and he owes tax liens! I am glad that you have now know who you will vote for as time is winding down. I just hope that Joe the Plumber didn't tip the scale....because that would be scary! [relundad]
Excellent discussion! I think it is wrong to penalize business for being sucessful, but you see that is the Obama plan as a whole. Endorse people who choose not to get an education whether is be through school or life experience, put them on welfare and be their friend! Let the rest of the world work hard, penalize them for success until nobody cares about being successful anymore. It will be socialism. You will have no choices. I could cry when I think about it. The poor that DO...not all do...fall into the category of such jealousy and want this new world order hate McCain and his wealth. Someone worked for that wealth. If those people in opposition had that wealth, what would they do? Give it all away? People have a right to earn as much money as they want. At least so far they do. The McCain's are very charitable people... [Yestheypayme2dothis]
Since Joe the plumber hasnt bothered to get licensed or pay his taxes (he also has open tax liens) at his current level, I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that he probally wont be in the 5% of citizens that will see the 3% increase. While we are asking about Joe the plumber, I am wondering why I have to be licensed as a broker and he doesn't? I am wondering why I have to pay taxes and he doesn't? And I am praying that since he hasn't bothered to get proper licensing or pay his taxes that he's not planning on getting a business loan that he probally wont pay back. [relundad]
Making over $250,000 is living well outside of one's needs for comfort. Under Obama's tax plan, those are the people that he plans to tax more if and when he is president of the United States. It makes sense to spread the wealth a little bit, especially in times of economic turmoil like now. Policies containing socialist components are not a bad thing. Deregulation is what has driven this economy to ****, so the government needs to begin working the other way. We are simply headed toward more European-type policy in this country. The bailout has socialist components, and our tax system looks to be heading further in that direction. I will not be affected either way by this, as I am not poor enough to benefit from the sharing of the wealth nor rich enough to be taxed at a higher rate. [mgeise]
you know, if you have a million dollars you want to keep a million dollars, but would it really kill you if a few thousand of that million went to taxes and help families that didn't even have a few hundred? this is all greed, [winterose]
the greed is big business, unless you are bill gates I don't think you are in that category the republicans are the party for big money for big business, the democrats are the party for middle class and low income families. Look at their policies look at what they are talk about, where do you see republicans saying tax cuts for middle class and low income families, when there is tax cuts it goes to big business, keeping the wealth among the same few people in the nation. americans need to stop voting for a party just because that they like the candidate, they need to vote for the party that will do the most to help them out. And rich people are out in droves voting for republicans and backing them in campaigns because they know that party will help them, but the rest of american should look at what that party is doing for them, and the one with programs that help middle class and low income families are the democrats. [winterose]
If this man is working as an apprentice he don't need a license,seems some people grabbed right on to this and when you give them hard facts about their Muslim socialist pal Barack Obama if the could come through the monitor they would cut a person throat for deceit and SOCIALIZE!!!!. Barack Obama I could give you a list of ten times in the past few years he has ripped off the hard working tax payers millions,got tax payer grants in the millions for his terrorist f***king pal William Ayers,His muslin con- artist pal Tony Rezko's trail transcript is peppered with the name Barack Obama,along with tens of thousands in dirty campaign money from Tony Rezko. Two weeks ago the Illinois D.A. open an investigation a missing 100k with Obama's finger prints on the 100K. Acorn he had nothing to do with but record prove a hell of a lot different,during last night debate McCain publicly called for a through investigation of Acorn. October 11,2008 Rezko sends word to the fed's he wants to talk for less time behind prison bars,wonder what old Tony Barack's twenty-five year pal in Chicgo crime wants to talk about hope >>>> BARACK and all the crime on the east side of Chicago. ya Obama balls let's talk about a hard working plumber that don't have a license that you don't even know why he don't have one, he got behind in his tax's maybe a divorce,a death in the family maybe the working man got ill and had no insurance choose paying medical bills before paying the damed crooks in Washington D.C. Racist to talk about Barack Obama and his dirty crime connects in Chicgo so let's just kick back and talk about the hard working plumber. Why is it any one cross Barack Hussien Obama he sends his snoop dogs to dig in the dirt to destroy a person. Maybe a little insight folk's Obama as president you mess up,cross him he will send his dirty dog's to pick-up your A** or your husband,dad,wife,mother or your teenage,take your birthday away from you>> he is just waiting for the POWER!!! I guess the left wing nut's and democrat's will enjoy Captain Barack Obama's community service he has said every American will get involved in and when they are done with their community service they can report to the Obama national civilian task force,which is policing your family and neighbors. In truth Obama's plan for every American will be no hand outs they will work in these area,Obama "Call to service Speech July 2,2008 Colorado Springs,Co "every American will repay their country when I'm president". I'm 100 % American and I will not sell out my country and what's left of the decent American people,county first,keeping us safe from a muslin attacks,socialism and bondage vote >>>>>>>>>Senator John McCain,stand with the real AMERICAN'S of the UNITED States Of AMerican,keep us FREE,KEEP YOUR KID'S FREE from HUMAN BONDAGE!!!! [kennyrose]
I can't help agreeing with many of the points dlnieto made here..Joe the Plumber turns out does NOT represent the average Joe making more than $250,000..it turns out Joe is somewhat of a fraud...he owes back taxes...in an interview with Diane Sawyer he revealed he is making nowhere near the $250,000 a year and is NOT even a licensed plumber..his name isn't even Joe...more and more "dirt" is coming out how fraudulent "Joe" is. As far as taxes goes....hardly anyone of us here at MyLot have to worry about stiff tax increases we may get if we earn over $250,000.00 as I hardly think any of us qualify...why shouldn't people earning more be taxed more? If anyone should be taxed more why shouldn't it be people who earn more than the norm of what the REAL average JOE earns? Instead, the middle, lower class and people who are barely surviving seem to be taxed more. I'M sorry Oreo...I'm just not a McCain/Palin supporter and if he's voted in I only see more of the Bush crap that has been going on for the past eight years...and you know my feelings all to clear about Palin...if various environmental and animal organizations which have ALWAYS been bipartition and never endorsed any political candidate why is it the majority of them are supporting Obama..that in itself should speak volumes [pyewacket]
I think most of the Americans on this site pay taxes. So, you are not keeping all of the money you make. Sure we'd all like to keep all of our money but it is no news flash that people have to pay taxes out of their hard earned money. I guess if you pay someone to do your taxes, you may not realize that if you earn more you pay more. It may not seem right, but it is the truth all the same. This is not some new idea that Obama is trying to force upon us. It is how we already operate. McCain SAYS he doesn't want to raise anyone's taxes and implies that by raising the taxes of someone making over 250k we will be stopping them from living the American dream. Obama SAYS he will not raise the taxes of anyone making less than 250k. It is likely that Obama believes that if you are making that much you are already living the american dream. Many of you in this discussion say that to spread the wealth will cause people to no longer work to improve our situations. According to Obama, he will not increase taxes for 95% of us and the cut off is 250K. Then 95% of us are making less than 250k and could probably still find reason to work for a better life. [Lee_Rites]
Modern politics is great but I always get the nagging feeling that it is not the good leaders that get elected but the ones who have the slickest ad campaigner. Politicians are products much like soap and they are packaged and presented to the public for a taste test of four years. It's a pity the whole rigmarole costs too much money and too much time to prove an elected official is an idiot. Cheers!! [underdogtoo]
Hi OreoCookie3, I agree with "Joe the plumber" 100%. we are losing our rights slowly but surly, and I can see where that is leading, and it will not be goodthumbdown Happy myLotting [snowqueen2008]
Nope - sorry. Hard to believe someone who isn't legally allowed to do the work he claims to be doing. He isn't licensed or trained and is not legally allowed to work under his employer's license. Why should I agree with someone who can't even follow the laws in his state? [jerzgirl]
The wealth has been redistrubed for eight years: upwards. The corporations receive tax breaks, then export jobs overseas, deny benefits to employees, reward their cronies and themselves. Beyond that Joe the Plumber (if he had represented himself correctly, which he did not) would get a tax break under Obama's plan. One of the reasons why my brother in law, Bob the real plumber, is voting Obama. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24511775-5013948,00.html [MoonlightSerenade]
Yeah, because higher business taxes make business so eager to do business in America. Yeah right. Business don't go overseas because of tax breaks. They go overseas because of cheaper operating costs. America has done it's level best to chase businesses out of this country, and higher taxes can only hep that end. Bashing "Joe the Plumber" is just a way to deflect from the real issue; raising taxes on small business is TOXIC to the American Economy. I know damn well if I were a small business owner I'd make sure I didn't do anything to help Obama's welfare plan for America. I'd make sure I didn't go one cent over his 250k mark. Why should I work harder for money I don't get to keep? Washington State, which has some of the highest taxes in the country, also has one of the highest small business failure rates in the nation. It's ranked 3rd. Businesses are being forced out by taxes and regulation which make doing business here too expensive for most people. This state, which is staunchly Democrat is one of the most business hostile environments in the nation. It's ranked 30th in the nation. The rest of the nation can look forward to a similar future under Obama. [sndcain36]
The democrats have always mistaken entitlement for equality; they will always feel they have a right to someone elses' success. Obama is promising something for nothing and we have an entire generation of spoiled brats who really think they have the right to take what they haven't earned. That's what we get for telling our kids they are fabulous just for being born; they really feel like the government isn't doing enough to make their lives better. It didn't occur to them that they might actually have to work for what they want. This welfare mentality is going to destroy us, and people are too stupid to realize what that really means. [sndcain36]
I agree with Joe the Plumber. It irritates me that there are factions in this country that try to make people with wealth the bad guys. All this "who should pay what" could be avoided if we adopted the FAIR TAX. All consumers would get taxed on what they buy and the government would get more money for their expenditures (including giveaway programs) that way. Unfortunately, Congress is not likely to go for this tax plan because it takes too much control away from them. [6precious102]
If somone works hard, then they deserve the money they earn. With that being said, there are so many, many more average income and poor people in the US and many of those people vote. So, if Obama solicits the votes of the 100 plus million people who have average income by promising to heavily tax the 5% of our country who has above average income, then that's just strategy. [beautyqueen26]
Yes, it is strategy.. and he's like the Pied Piper getting everyone with their hands out to follow him to dig into the pockets of the more affluent. Great strategy too.. one giant step toward socialism. [OreoCookie3]
Senator Government is buying votes by pandering to the poor. And it will cost them the most. He can't force companies to be productive. He can't increase their taxes and expect them to keep jobs in America. Let alone bring back jobs that have already been shipped overseas. Why would a foreign company consider relocating in America when they can go to any other country and pay less in taxes? Increased taxes=lower productivity, fewer jobs, lower pay, higher prices. IOW Jimmy Carter redux. [morethanamolehill]
And this one's even better: http://www.nowpublic.com/world/obama-another-jimmy-carter-absolutely [sndcain36]
I think everyone should pay the same flat percentage tax wheather that is 10% or 50%. Of course if the goverment would curb their spending on foolishiness it wouldn't be such a big problem. I don't know about anyone else but i am darn tired of doing without so that some special intrest group can study how a cow farting effects the enviroment or some other stupid piece of foolishness. [cjgrooms]
I agree with him. I worked hard for my money and you know as well as I do that it's only going to be the middle class that going to have to share. By the way isn't that what the communist always say? He says he wants to be the Robin Hood for America. He forgets that the reason Robin Hood robbed the rich is because the poor had no money. This is only one of the many reasons I hope he losses. GO JOHN McCAIN [patms1]
I love it when liberals equate themselves with Robin Hood. They never read about him obviously. Robin stole from the tax collectors and the government and gave the money back to the overtaxed masses. These folks are the government, stealing from the overtaxed masses to enrich their supporters. there is no comparison unless they start calling themselves the sheriff of Nottingham. [CarlKnittel]