...what does that mean to you? Is it just a number that doesn't really mean a thing? Do you say, "So?" in the manner of the D1ck Cheney? Or does it make you feel very sad, as it does me, no matter what your feelings are about this seemingly endless war, where 97% of the deaths have come AFTER Bush declared "Mission Impossible" when you think of all these mostly very young men and women all of whom were someone's child, spouse, parent, sibling and/or friend?
Annie
[question posted by anniepa]responses and comments:
War is never a good thing. Again I think Cheney was reacting more to the whim of the American voter. Lincoln, Jefferson, Wilson and FDR would have never run a war on public opinion polls. If they did they would have gone down as terrible leaders. It is very sad we have 4000 dead in 5 years. Do you realize 25,000+ will die on America's highways this year? 5,000 will die from domestic abuse. 15,000+ will die from drug addiction. So every year America loses almost 100,000 to drugs, fights, cars, alcohol, tabacco, etc. The real tragedy is that all those people died in vain, the military took down 10-15 very bad men down with them that can't hurt us anymore. Lincoln's Gettysburg Address was giving exactly to address the huge deathtoll. And to think that was just over slavery, not killing thousands in cold blood on 9/11. [pghcityhall]
...they tried to fight a politically correct war.. (i.e. letting the media run the war, after the initial quick success).. I think it's a horrible shame that we stand by and let men who are weapons of mass destruction oppress, maim and fill mass graves with their innocent victims.. do we think if we just let them get their genocides over with, we can work out world peace with them? Not enough countries are willing to do anything about such atrocities and millions continue to suffer greatly, while the world's media portrays conservatives and George W. Bush as the current huge danger to the world.. Don't kid yourself, when all that matters is votes, votes and more votes.. including to the media, well, just let me say that a biased media is in no way a free press.. I say take out all madmen who are rulers and despots, beFore they get their hands on mass death means.. If we all stood up, it wouldn't be anywhere near 4000... (er, of course then some would have to give up some riches coming their way, like did from Saddam to his 'friends' who partook in the "oil for food scandal" in the halls of the U.N. or was that reported on enough to be very widely known about?) [flowerchilde]
It really saddens and depresses me to no end. It has gone on long enough and we do not need to lose more lives. the economy has went to crap also and this war has gone on long enough. I do not see any progress for it myself. It needs to stop and get our people back home. [stephcjh]
The war was a failure from the start. Bush had no plans set up. He just had a 'supposed' idea to take out Saddam. I give him props for that but his approach was just completely infantile. Sending thousands of men to invade the country? Smells a bit fishy to me. I think we all know Bush had personal interests. But yeah, about the deaths. I am sad that 4,000 soldiers died due to one government's stupidity. It's really horrible to see that their deaths no longer stand much of a purpose. Saddam is out, Iraq supposedly has a democratic leader. Their presence is no longer (and was never) useful. It's just aggravating the Iraqis as the days go on. Hopefully the next president will pull out these poor guys. [HawaiiGopher]
I must only agree.....It was, it is and it always will be a failure headed by Georg W. Bush [drscorpius]
Yes, it is just number like 89,914 Iraqis have killed since the US Invasion from 2003. And it will be hit 100,000 just another number compare to 4000 American Troops Dead. And they all have their family, child, spouse, parents, sibling and friends, and they still live everyday some how. So sad right? Just another number. This is the website that count how many Iraqis killed everyday, they called "Iraq Body Count" http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ [rinaaus]
89,914...its horrible.... Some Iraqis maybe dont have family, child, spouse, parents, sibling and friends because they were killed by US Army or by islamic terrorist [drscorpius]
When it first started it was called Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL) and when they figured out what it spelled they changed the name because they had it right the first time. Cheney does not worry about friendly fire, just ask the lawyer that he shot in the face. And another thing is if the politicians had to send their children )even Bushes twins) into the war zone, the war would not have started in the first place. This is going to be another Viet Nam only worse because the enemy is not as easy to determine as it was in Viet Nam. There might not be as many death but there will be more disabled people coming back from the war that we should not be in. [oscarbartoni]
Let me start off by saying that I absolutely disagree with this war. I think Bush prdered the troops in under false pretences. FOr example, the weapons of mass destruction that Bush was so sure they had, of course did not turn up when our boys got in there. But having said all this, in any war, there are casualties. We are in a war, and casualties are somewaht unavoidable. Sure most of us don;t agree with it, but there are some that do. Who knows, maybe without our invasion, something more drastic may have occured, like another major terrorist attack. One good thing has come out of the dust of Iraq. At least Saddam is out of power. [huppsterdave5125]
"Who knows, maybe without our invasion, something more drastic may have occured, like another major terrorist attack." Obviously, we'll never know, but if hit had happened it wouldn't have been because we didn't invade Iraq, that much you can be quite sure about. Also, Saddam has been out of power for almost five years; why are we still there? Annie [anniepa]
I think its a dam shame whats going on in Iraq and all the soldiers that died and are going to continue to die,but unfortunately war and death go hand in hand,and what makes it worse is that people still continue to enlist to fight Bush's war ,that i can noy understand.... [mrpippo]
it saddens me quite deeply. I am thankful today that my nephews..one marine, one army...are both home from Iraq since last monday. I am so thankful that they were both safe but the horrors of what they have lived is just awful. Cheney could care less what happens to those soldiers. I think most americans in some way are related to or know someone who is there now. I am very empathetic to all of them. [asuniqueasyou]
Have you talked to your nephews about how they feel about this war? I really feel that we can set here and be arm chair warriors all we want but we haven't BEEN there. We need to listen to the ones fighting; the ones that live there. [hornswaggled]
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 signed by Bill Clinton, the enforcement of a ceasefire after 17 UN Sanctions, and the bipartisan authorization of Congress to enforce the ceasefire. If Clinton would have been the one to have returned to Iraq and finish the job instead of leaving it for Bush to do, you would be in support of Iraq and you know it. It is an unfortunate reality that people die in wars, and everyone is someone's child like trying to refinance with no cost. When Bush declared Mission Accomplished... it was the end of the mission to remove Saddam from power... so in that sense he was accurate. It then morphed into the mission to provide security in Iraq while the newly elected government there became stable and strong enough to defend itself without outside help. That is what we are doing now, and it is finally working. That doesn't mean anything to you though.... instead you get on here and continually denigrate Bush for doing his job. By doing that you cheapen every life that has been lost fighting this war, and every word against this war and the president serves to strengthen and support the very people that they are fighting. We are there for a very important reason, and no matter how many times it is stated you people just don't seem to get it. If we leave Iraq in an unstable and unsecured state then we will just have to go over and fight the terrorists again...and if they have regrouped and rebuilt then it will be much harder and many more than 4000 will die. It is just that simple. Bush knows that, Hillary knows that, and even Obama knows that. So just what part of that do YOU not understand? If you democrats haven't got the stomach to stay the course, then maybe the democrats should not vote to authorize wars. I would have thought you democrats would have figured that out when you cost us Vietnam. There is a reason that democrats are not considered to be real good with National Security issues. [Destiny007]
The mistake was yours, not mine. [Destiny007]
What you expect from a war ? .How many American lives were lost in vietnam ,a place half the world away, a war which U.S just got into to settle their scores over communism ,seventy thousand lives were lost , was that worth it ? .So wars are not about numbers , it is whether or not you attain your objective . with regards www.chocolatesavy.com [satkumar077]
We had even less business in Vietnam then we do in Iraq with agriculture and oil. We got pulled into Vietnam because of us helping another country who was actually doing the fighting at the time. We got sucked in, and a lot of people died because of it. But yes, that is a whole 'nother discussion. [Destiny007]
i hope the next president can stop war and i hope obama will be the next president don't you? [gukguks]
Cheney could care less! All he is worried about is his pocketbook and how Halliburton's will fare when the war is over. It should have been over a long time ago, but our short sighted administration wouldn't listen to people with an ounce of common sense when they warned over and over again about how this war could end up like Vietnam....it didn't work then and it won't work now. Our soldiers are being picked off while we are just waiting for the Iraqi's to come to their senses I guess. Bush can't admit he made a HUGE mistake and all he is doing is allowing more and more Americans t die and for our country to go broke while he and his friends fill their pockets with our money. The reason Bill Clinton had to sign a treaty was because BUSH SENIOR got us into the first war. Bush pulled out and left Clinton to have to deal with the aftermath including cheap restaurant aprons over there. So don't blame this mess on the Democrats. I am voting another straight ticket just because I don't want to even see a Republican because they ALWAYS voted for the war even when they found out they were lied to. The only Republican I would vote for is John Warner and he isn't running for re-election. [the_vicar]
Congress put us in Iraq just as much as Bush did. It was a lying democrat that signed the Iraq Liberation Act in 1998. In fact, he was later CONVICTED of PERJURY. We had Vietnam won until a gutless liberal Congress voted to cut off the funding, and we have the same problem developing now. If Bush made a mistake, then Congress did as well. Now then, just what treaty did Clinton sign? Bush was in office when the Iraq Ceasefire Agreement was put into effect, so just what treaty did Clinton have to sign? All Clinton had to do was hold the fort, and we all saw what a lousy job he did of that. This mess is the democrats mess, just as much as it is Bush's mess, and the same as it is America's mess. The only ones lying about this war are the ones who keep saying they were lied to.... and that would be the lying liberals who also lied when they said that they would FORCE Bush to withdraw from Iraq if they got elected. Yeah, we see how well THAT worked now didn't we. The democrats knew that they couldn't do it, but they told you they could anyway, which means THEY LIED. ROFLMAO at the liberals. [Destiny007]
It does make me very sad. Although I don't have a close friend or relative there, like most people I've had friends and neighbors with family serving in Iraq. I think we should all take it personally. [Anhedonia]
The losses are sad. I am thankful that we have such brave men and women. The war was just. The war turned sour. If we don't finish what we started or our children or grandchildren will have to. [totalcomments_com]
Me? LOL thankfully I don't need to leave America, I am Australian. [Krisss]
It does make me a bit sad, as a couple who have died have been either close friends, or fellow soldiers I went through training with. However, I'm also very very proud of my brothers and sisters in uniform. They are fighting a noble cause, fighting a fight in a foreign land so that the public here doesn't have to worry about fighting on our own streets. Mission Accomplished only simple talked about taking Baghdad and securing vital assets. However, I do believe that the statement should have never been made, but at the same time we must remember that this is a different kind of war. This is a war where there are truly no rules for the enemy. We can't stand by and let a group who so desperately hates Americans they will kidnap and behead anyone simply because they are an American. Rather than complaining about the war, those who don't like it should spend that time honoring those dead. [Smith2028]
Hi anniepa, I am not an American, but a Canadian, yet this makes me feel very sad. We have troops in Afghanistan, and have also lost far too many young men and women. War is wrong, yet no one seems to be really seeking peace. I am hoping that a change of government in this country will help, but I am doubtful. Blessings. [Pose123]
I think the number is sad. Why? Well it is not just a number. Each was a person. A mother, a father, a son or daughter, a spouse. It is always sad when someone dies. But I do think we need to put into context. It is far less than we lost in the civil war (how is war civil anyway?), WW1 and 2, or vietnam. Far less. I really wonder what people expected when Bush decided to go into Iraq. That no one would die? Did we not understand what a war really was and what the conseqences would be? Were we fooling ourselves? People always die in a war.. It is the price of war. Where was the outrage then? People want to throw a fit now 5 years later. The time to throw a fit was BEFORE we went in. [lilwonders123]
Oh I was not for it either. But now that we are there we do have a responiblity to the Iraq people. We (or rather Bush) took it upon ourselves to make this mess. We need to clean it up. Cutting and running will only hurt the Iraq peole more. Haven't we hurt them enough? [lilwonders123]
Lies Lies Lies and in more years to come More Lies , why floks ? Why must we hype ourselves up and promote these leaders that never get nothing accomplished ? i was never for the War to begin with..there's no progress no disrespect to the troops theyre doing all they can but heck they dont wanna be there , themselevs if they saw a plane with Straight to America on , they'll on be one it ..ugh im just so thru with politics and the whole nine cause its all senseless [Gesusdid]
It disgusts me. How many innocent Iraqis have perished at the same time? Does anyone know or care how many children have died as a result of this invasion of their country [Krisss]
Have you asked any one from this country or from the military whether this war is worth it to them? Everyone seems to have all the answers but no one want to talk to the ones that need answers the most. The people that are there living and fighting for this democracy. Ask a soldier. Ask a resident of this country. They know the truth! [hornswaggled]
Why would anyone take notice of a man or men whose mass income is from making WAR machines. To me this seems to be the order of the day in the USA. These people love wars it makes them powerful in that they can buy there way with Governments for there own dirty deeds. Sometime we do need to pick up the gun, but it is never the answer. Trade and welfare care will do more to stop WARS than any GUN. And is far cheaper to do. [hiccup]
I have to say that means 4000 families are with out a son, daughter, husband wife, father, mother, friend, uncle aunt..... (you get the picture) and that means a lot to me, I don't think anyone realized that the extent of this war was going to be, everyone thought it would be like the Iraq conflict earlier where they threw down their arms and surrendered back then... Now they are more prepared to repel borders so to speak. I don't like war, but I don't want these yutzes walking all over America and our freedoms...I have no good solution. Mooch [oneandonemakesix]
I think war is a scary sad thing but I think you are missing the point.I started another question concerning my confusion on why everyone seems to vilify President Bush for taking the intititave on our home land attack as apposed to President Kennedy's role in Vietnam war and I want to ask you...Kennedy is considered a hero. Do you agree? So my question is why? He managed to start a war that killed 57 thousand people in it's intirety in the US and this was done in a 10 year period. Even if he would have lived to stop it the following year we averaged about 17,000 men and women by the time he died. So what is the blasted difference???! Because he died and therefore became a martyr? Come on people. Think this through and don't go off half cocked with information that you aren't even sure about! President Bush did what he thought was right to ensure our safety and for no other reason! If he was after oil then why are prices so high? If he was after fame then why are his ratings so low? If he was after power then why do so many want him dead? Answer that for me and let me know what you think because I am really tired of the all the whining and complaining about this! [hornswaggled]
It means its gone on for quite a while and its quite a loss (not even counting civilian deaths caused by terrorists/criminals, fighting). People did volunteer for this but others that were lost in this did not; the losses are still saddening. I do think of family, friends and those affected (I have to note though for people trying to claim the same thing, I don't see you in any of the army family discussions ever...) I'm just sick that people only really pay attention when it reaches a nice round number. It also means that people (especially the BS alphabet soup newsmedia and politicians) don't really care that lives were lost here... its just another political statement. (*said dryly and sickened*) Isn't it great when everyone runs out to use bodies for a political platform? -_- [theprogamer]
I agree with you about people only paying attention when it reaches a nice round number and I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression by starting this discussion in the way I did. The thing is, the war has disappeared from the news in recent months so people have forgotten about it for the most part, except for those who has someone serving or someone who has lost a loved one. I know we have an all volunteer military, I know people die in wars and I even know sometimes war is necessary. That doesn't ever make it easy to lose someone or stop someone from worrying when they have loved ones in harm's way. However, in this case I don't think we belonged there in the first place and, OK, we went, there's no use in arguing that point anymore but I still think, and I'm not alone in thinking it was handled miserably and I'd love to know how this elusive "victory" they're always talking about is defined. We can also go on and on forever saying it was really Clinton's fault, Congress had all the same information Bush had, yada, yada, that doesn't solve anything or keep more of our troops from dying. I'm frustrated and sad and I'm very worried about my nephews and several friends' sons and daughters who are in the military and I get very angry when I'm accused of not supporting our troops or honoring those who have died. I also get frustrated when I hear how "all" of those who are over there are for the war because I know for a fact that isn't true. I also know for a fact there are some who wouldn't dare say what they really think publicly because they will be sent back. Annie [anniepa]
War is needed by all presidents of The United State of America. This happened since Kennedy's era, Nixon, Jimmy Carter, George Bush, Bill Clinton, and now George W Bush. They needed war for the same reasons, firstly, to make breakthrough for economic growth; secondly, to unite all Americans behind the president policy, especially when White House fail to accomplise the deal with Congres or Semat regarding his programme. Record has shown war-campaign is the proven-strategy that could unite all people, regardless they used to support or oppose the president's policy. War-campaign also is needed to assure the cucumbent to run for the president on the next election. That's why President Geoege W Bush -- in his state remark -- is trying to assure the people that war in Iraq is a success campaign so far. In this regards, White House -- whoever the president is -- will never concern about the war-tool. For the president, war-tool, (4000 American troops dead in Iraq), is not a big issue, they are only numbers that meaningless. The main issue in this contex is, war should be won out, whatever the cost that should be paid out. The only impact that could be hoped from here is the death-tool could trigger anti-war campaign across the America. Hopely it could open all Anmerican eyes, that war in Iraq is imposed-war, injustice war so that it can not be won....... Saddam Hussein at first was lured away to invade Kuwait [bonansa2008]
The death toll is a travesty. There is no way to express the magnitude of the horror of such a thing! The madness must end. All this killing in the names of Almighty Oil, God, and the egos of powerful politicians that stand before us regurgitating their pitiful claims of sadness at those who have made "the ultimate sacrifice" is an abomination. I am so sick of hearing that out of Bush's mouth. We have all heard of "the burning bush", right? Well there is one unholy Bush that will one day burn eternally for his ignoble blood bath justified by an evil lie. [chazh9]
And so will you if you have thoughts of this as a Christian. [hornswaggled]
My heart bleeds for those young fine men and women-I dont know if the commander in chief sometimes wishes he did not order the war! [academic2]
When one joins the Army, Navy, Airforce, or the Marines, he or she is expected to fight, especially he since most women are probably killed doing non fighting tasks such as working in an office when the enemy attacks. It is tragic but then when you are fighting a war, people die. And you also have to not think of keeping your son and daughter from fighting because horrors! they might get killed, but think what would have happened if they were not in Iraq. What would have happened to the Iraqis? I remember the opposition to the Vietnam war and the soldiers being called baby killers and I later learned that much of this was false information designed to end the war. Now Vietnam is a communist country. Who knows whether a new strong man will arise in Iraq and be worse that Sadam Hussein. America should support its troops, make it possible for them to have a defense against enemy attacks, and not demoralize them. And those who are not fighting, working as store clerks, as drivers, etc. should be better protected against terrorist attacks. [suspenseful]
Georg W. Bush, Colin Powell, Rumsfeld, Fleischer, Wolfowitz, Riceová, Cheney and McClellan....all of them were lying (and still are lying) about Iraq [drscorpius]
It saddens me but those who do chose to fight in the military have made that choice for themselves at least in this war. I give them credit for that. I would never join the military- no way!! Too chicken. Military people believe in war as a way of protecting our country and our "freedom" (that the government so loves to take away bit by bit at times). Honestly, I'm very torn about the war. I think it is needless but then again, I don't want them coming to our soil and creating a war here on our turf. I'm thankful for the ballsy people who fight for us and feel sorry for their families when we lose them. But even in loss, their families still remain proud as their military family member believed strong enough in America to fight for it. There is something to be said for military bravery...I hope the brave souls who paid the ultimate price have found ultimate peace! [skinnychick]
This is actually pretty sad. It seems that they are not thinking. Don't you think that is too much people dying. I tell you it is really sad. Shouldn't they have some kind of sympathy. Fathers, brothers, sisters, and friends, are being affected. [DESMASTER2007]